How to learn Zen Count?

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Dopple

Well-Known Member
A5 vs 3 and 9 vs 7 occur at about the same count. I can see how there are many ways to make a 9 (2,7; 3,6; 4,5) but beyond frequency I don't see why one is more profitable than the other. Are some bs deviations more profitable give equal count and frequency considerations.

Hope I am not belaboring the point and thank for the insight.

I wonder if the Verite software could help pinpoint play weaknesses.
 
Solo player

Solo player

Well-Known Member
Zen TC conversion

zengrifter said:
When you get to 1.5D you will need to go to half-decks... BUT REMEMBER you are STILL dividing by whole decks. zg
Click to expand...

I'm just not sure what you mean by this. Could you elaborate?
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
Solo player said:
I'm just not sure what you mean by this. Could you elaborate?
Click to expand...
We were discussing 1DTC "resolution" estimated to the nearest 1/2D after remaining cards are at 1.5D or less. zg
 
Solo player

Solo player

Well-Known Member
Zen 2 decks or less

Is it ok with 1.5 decks remaing to just divide your running count by 1.5 to get the tc? Or would this change the indices to much? Maybe its not even necessary and should just leave well enough alone.
 
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noharmnofoul

Active Member
I gave Zen count a shot in real game play. I will say this... it kicked my ass. I never thought in a million years that I would have a hard time moving four numbers around in my head. More practice at home then I will try it again in real play.
 
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georgeluc

Member
Could anyone explain to me what risk-of-ruin assessment is?

Proper betting size is when you increase the size of your bet according to the true count? if so does this site describe proper betting size for zen count? http://www.gamesblackjack.org/strategy/card-counting/zen-count.php .....

Game selection criteria is playing on the best available game correct?
Zengrifter states lack of schooling on these 3 subjects is why most new counters fail. Also when learning the indices from here http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/Zen_Count_Indices.htm#comprehensivebs . it says A2 vs 4 to double, but basic strategy tells me to hit, i only do what these indices say for which ones have a number in the box correct? Anything else i just follow BS yes? Also could someone explain to me what people mean when they say rounding/grouping indices, or when you lose accuracy on a index? Also do i divide the running count to the nearest deck estimation. E.g. 12 RC 6 decks and 40 cards remaining would i divide 12 by 7 because it's closer to 7? And if it was 20 cards would i divide it by 6 decks? Any help appreciated.
 
B

bigplayer

Well-Known Member
Brock Windsor said:
I'm not a Zen counter but I would think Blackbelt in Blackjack to be a very good source. Not sure why zg would advise against learning from it. The book has all the rounded index numbers, TE conversion, betting according to bankroll, tags...Snyder has proven that rounded index #s are essentially as powerful as exact numbers. Snyder is one of the all time greats, I would trust what he has published.
BW
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This is because the "True Edge" version (TC by 1/4 decks) is inferior to the original count per deck version of Zen. In Casino Verite you want to use the Zen 1980 index numbers and use TC per deck.
 
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georgeluc

Member
So let me get this straight, if there are 7 decks 40 cards remaining i would round that down to 7 decks and divide the running count by 7 using 1DTC method, and then after i have the TC i would round that down (truncate) to the nearest (integer) whole? Is that the best method i should use?

When there are 1-3 decks left i just round down to half decks, so if there was 2 deck 40 cards i would round that down to 2.5; or if there were 2D 20 cards remaining i would round that down to 2 then divide RC by remaining decks (e.g. 5 RC divide by 2.5 TC 2 correct?) and round TC down to the nearest whole?

If it was a one deck game i would divide RC by .25 .50 .75 correct? E.g. RC 5 .75 remaining = 6.6 then round to 6 for TC?

Also what would be a good betting ramp for 25 dollar minimum table?

This is all using zen balanced and using these indices http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/Zen_Count_Indices.htm#comprehensivebs
 
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zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
georgeluc said:
If it was a one deck game i would divide RC by .25 .50 .75 correct? E.g. RC 5 .75 remaining = 6.6 then round to 6 for TC?

Also what would be a good betting ramp for 25 dollar minimum table?

This is all using zen balanced and using these indices http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/Zen_Count_Indices.htm#comprehensivebs
Click to expand...
Yes. DIVIDE - until...

1D remaining RC = TC
3/4-D remain RC x 1.5 = TC
1/2-D remain RC x 2.0 = TC
1/3-D remain RC x 3.0 = TC
1/4-D remain RC x 4.0 = TC

As for ramp, that is a consideration of BR AND game selection AND casino tolerance.

Someone give George a good all-around composite ramp for 1000u ($25k BR) with estimate of RoR. zg
 
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georgeluc

Member
Should i just use normal rounding (4 or lower round down, 5 or higher round up) when estimating the decks left or just round down? E.g. 6.6 decks left round to 7, 6.4 round to 6.
 
T

tthree

Banned
zengrifter said:
Yes. DIVIDE - until...

1D remaining RC = TC
3/4-D remain RC x 1.5 = TC
1/2-D remain RC x 2.0 = TC
1/3-D remain RC x 3.0 = TC
1/4-D remain RC x 4.0 = TC

As for ramp, that is a consideration of BR AND game selection AND casino tolerance.

Someone give George a good all-around composite ramp for 1000u ($25k BR) with estimate of RoR. zg
Click to expand...
Correction 3/4 deck left multiply RC by 1.33
2/3 deck left multiply RC by 1.5
 
FLASH1296

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
For True Count generation:

Your default is to be conservative and round down your positive T.C.s
and round up if a negative T.C. (toward zero)

For making indexed plays (Basic Strategy Deviations):

If a positive T C always round DOWN.
If negative, always round up (toward ZERO)
 
FLASH1296

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
Your question re: a bet-ramp.

In a single deck game 4 to 1 is about all that is going to be tolerated.

Do not bet aggressively, unless your intention is to play an entire

session in less than 25 minutes.

Keep your spread to 3 to 1 if you intend to play for an extended period.

Greed Kills.
 
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