I evolve!

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Theef

Active Member
Getting backed off for the first time three years ago felt like a proud accomplishment for me. But I recently made an even bigger breakthrough - I noticed a consistently exposed hole card for the very first time on a Vegas trip. Finally, a taste of this advanced AP you guys are always hinting at! I started flat-betting two, then three, then four of my usual units, and did my best to guesstimate a hole card strategy. 9 vs. 16? Easy double (I think). 12 vs. 12? Not so easy to figure out in three seconds. Doesn't Wong's PBJ have this info? Too bad I didn't bring that book on this trip. I knew better than to start hitting 18s and such, although it really rubbed me the wrong way to stand when I knew perfectly well I was losing 100% of my bet 100% of the time by doing so. That's not the kind of decision any gambler is accustomed to making. Anyway, I punished this dealer for a hefty sum before he or she was relieved. Then I returned a few times throughout my trip, earning the lion's share of my trip profits from this one opportunity.

There's an extremely short list of people whom I kinda know enough to share this dealer's identity with, but I'd be happy to do so. bj.theef@gmail.com
 
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The Mayor

Well-Known Member
Please don't share!

Thanks for your statement that you would share with a select list, but my experience is that this dealer will last *only* until someone with big money comes in, and then the game will be burnt out.

Save it for yourself and do everything in your power to get back to the game asap and keep playing it. Share it only with someone who wants to co-bank with you.

--Mayor
 
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Theef

Active Member
Awww. Then let me modify this thread

I've read those countless posts saying "you won't find such information on a public forum." Now it appears I might not find such information privately either. Oh well. Now that I've gotten a taste, I want more. Maybe *these* questions are okay to be answered?

Are flashers more common at break-in and low-limit joints? How much more common?
Is it worthwhile to devote large segments of my trip to patrolling for flashers; i.e. could that be more profitable than counting a 2D game?
Is hole card play feasible at shoe games? How about carnival games with those automatic slug-spewers? (You don't have to say which games.) My impression is that weak dealers of those games would be too rare to be worth scouting for; is this right or wrong?
What is my advantage roughly, and thus what fraction of my bankroll should I bet, if I can see the hole card 80% of the time in a pitch game?

Are hole card players really so solitary? I had a fantasy about earning rudimentary credit with some kind of tip-trading ring. Or at least getting some "I'm pretty sure this Theef guy isn't a casino spy" points with the right kind of folks.
 
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The Mayor

Well-Known Member
Probably saying more than I should...

> Maybe *these* questions are okay to be answered?

Maybe...

>Are flashers more common at break-in and low-limit joints?

Flashers are ubiquitous. You just have to open your eyes.

>Is it worthwhile to devote large segments of my trip to patrolling for flashers; i.e. could that be more profitable than counting a 2D game?

Yes. Searching for great games should be the major thing you do. Playing blackjack using card counting is what you do when you are too tired to scout.

>Is hole card play feasible at shoe games?

I've have not heard of it being done recently (legally, that is).

>What is my advantage roughly, and thus what fraction of my bankroll should I bet, if I can see the hole card 80% of the time in a pitch game?

If you get perfect information 80% of the time, and you are willing to play perfect hole card strategy, you will get about a 10% advantage in this situation. Your entire bankroll should back you if you find such a game. Borrow money from friends too.

>Are hole card players really so solitary?

Not in my experience. Team play is very common.

>I had a fantasy about earning rudimentary credit with some kind of tip-trading ring.

Such groups exist already. The best way to get into one is to do your own homework and start such a group yourself.

>Or at least getting some "I'm pretty sure this Theef guy isn't a casino spy" points with the right kind of folks.

Your questions show a very careful and considered view of casinos. Whether you are a spy or not doesn't matter. Your eyes are clearly open.

--Mayor
 
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Tom

Well-Known Member
You may scout for years

and see a couple of flashers,in the meantime I'll be busy card counting everyday and deal with the flashes as they come. I still dream of the day I only have to scout for a few hours to find holecards. The fact is, it's a very,very,very,rare occurence, as you should probably already know. If you dont believe me, dedicate your trips scouting and dont be surprised if you never play.
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
Holecarding shoes

My experience with shoes is that they are most vulnerable to holecarding when checking for blackjack, and this is dependent on the method they use to check. There are electronic scanners, a variety of optical devices and just bending up the corner of the card to look at it (This method is rare, but look up Clarke Cant's reference to "bangers" to go along with this subject.) You'll only get this opportunity when the dealer has an ace or 10 so that makes it less valuable, but if you are holecarding at a shoe game with late surrender a peek at the hole card is much more valuable because you can surrender a lot of stiffs that way and you'll just look like a ploppy who misuses surrender.

I agree with Tom in that you can't go out to play expecting to find a flasher. When I visit a new store I look at shuffles, procedures, variations in pen that can be exploited and if I see a flasher that's great, but it is indeed rare. But some people are a lot better at picking it up than others.
 
V

Victoria

Well-Known Member
notes

As said before, spending your time searching for just flashers will often mean just spending all your time searching and not playing. Over the last few years I have found several and I also have the advantage of sharing information with one other person who has played longer than I. Keep notes of the names, casino and description of the flasher. Remember their shift but shifts change and dealers move often from casino to casino and also just leave the area. Eventually you will have a small list and at least starting places for a trip to a place like Vegas.
I keep my notes in code just in case it falls into the wrong hands. When it was smaller I committed it to memory before a trip.
Finally, if a dealer you were looking for is not present, I do not think asking about him/her to another dealer is a problem. You might learn they are now on another shift or casino.
Victoria
 
L

Litigator

New Member
Website info

I disagree with virtually everything that has been said regarding holecarding here. These people who are giving you advice are not holecarding specialists. Take everything you read on the Internet with a grain of salt and be prepared to learn on your own as you go, and from any specialists you might meet.
 
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