i-Table at Planet Hollywood in Las Vegas

[ArcticInferno]

For those who don’t know what an i-Table is, the shoe has a scanner that reads the cards as they’re released, so the computer totals the sums and determines win/loss/push etc.
There’s a touch-sensitive screen on the table that you use to make your bets and decide hit, stand, etc.
The computer can count the cards with you and analyze your bet variations.
The dealer took about 3, or maybe 4 minutes explaining and teaching the patron how to make the bets on the computer screen. After several attempts, the patron got frustrated and left the table.
A new patron walked up, and the dealer again stopped the game to explain and teach the new patron how to use the computer screen.
The game crawled at a snail pace, and every time a new patron came up, she had to stop the game to explain and teach how to use the computer.
All these patrons didn’t seem like locals. No, they were visitors, and if they ever return in the future, will they remember how to use the computer, or will they need to be re-taught?
The table minimum was $15, and at such a slow rate, how will they justify the table taking up valuable real estate on the casino floor, and pay for itself, the cost of maintenance, and finally pay the dealer’s salary.
Parx casino in Bensalem PA caters to locals who will remember how to use the computer on their next visit on the paycheck day, so you can “almost justify” the i-Tables.
However, i-Tables in Las Vegas is a result of a poor executive decision from high level up.

 

[Southpaw]

For those who don’t know what an i-Table is, the shoe has a scanner that reads the cards as they’re released, so the computer totals the sums and determines win/loss/push etc.
There’s a touch-sensitive screen on the table that you use to make your bets and decide hit, stand, etc.
The computer can count the cards with you and analyze your bet variations.
The dealer took about 3, or maybe 4 minutes explaining and teaching the patron how to make the bets on the computer screen. After several attempts, the patron got frustrated and left the table.
A new patron walked up, and the dealer again stopped the game to explain and teach the new patron how to use the computer screen.
The game crawled at a snail pace, and every time a new patron came up, she had to stop the game to explain and teach how to use the computer.
All these patrons didn’t seem like locals. No, they were visitors, and if they ever return in the future, will they remember how to use the computer, or will they need to be re-taught?
The table minimum was $15, and at such a slow rate, how will they justify the table taking up valuable real estate on the casino floor, and pay for itself, the cost of maintenance, and finally pay the dealer’s salary.
Parx casino in Bensalem PA caters to locals who will remember how to use the computer on their next visit on the paycheck day, so you can “almost justify” the i-Tables.
However, i-Tables in Las Vegas is a result of a poor executive decision from high level up.

I hope that every casino incorporating these i-tables onto their floor takes a loss greater than if every one of their regular tables were filled with counters spreading from the min to max.

SP

 

[kewljason]

For those who don’t know what an i-Table is, the shoe has a scanner that reads the cards as they’re released, so the computer totals the sums and determines win/loss/push etc.
There’s a touch-sensitive screen on the table that you use to make your bets and decide hit, stand, etc.
The computer can count the cards with you and analyze your bet variations.
The dealer took about 3, or maybe 4 minutes explaining and teaching the patron how to make the bets on the computer screen. After several attempts, the patron got frustrated and left the table.
A new patron walked up, and the dealer again stopped the game to explain and teach the new patron how to use the computer screen.
The game crawled at a snail pace, and every time a new patron came up, she had to stop the game to explain and teach how to use the computer.
All these patrons didn’t seem like locals. No, they were visitors, and if they ever return in the future, will they remember how to use the computer, or will they need to be re-taught?
The table minimum was $15, and at such a slow rate, how will they justify the table taking up valuable real estate on the casino floor, and pay for itself, the cost of maintenance, and finally pay the dealer’s salary.
Parx casino in Bensalem PA caters to locals who will remember how to use the computer on their next visit on the paycheck day, so you can “almost justify” the i-Tables.
However, i-Tables in Las Vegas is a result of a poor executive decision from high level up.

It is my understanding that the I-tables at Parx were determined to have been a bust. As far as tracking counters, if you play anonymously the computer can't track you as it can't determine if it is even the same player from round to round. It was reported on the other board that because of frequent mechanical failures causing high maintenance costs along with high leasing expenses, that at the end of october, Parx made the decision to eliminate these tables within 90 days. I can't imagine they would be any more successful in LV.

 

[WrongWayWade]

Computerized dealer BJ & Mind-Play chips

The fully computerized BJ games with a video dealer (generally with a large bust) still seem popular, though I haven't played at them myself. I THINK some of them pay blackjacks at 2 FOR 1 (1:1), but I've also seen some that seem to have legitimate payout amounts. I'm sure players like them because they don't have to be scrutinized by dealers or other players (much), and the minimums are usually very low ($1). Also, you get perfect comp tracking like a slot machine.

I can't see if you have an actual dealer involved how it would ever be more attractive to add a touch-screen input to the mess.

I HAVE played at regular games with the 'Mind-Play' chip counting mechanism, but no 'Mind-Play' card counting involved. The dealer hits a button before he deals each round to record the amount of each player's bet based on the RFID chips. The pit critters have to keep track of who is betting at which spot(s) but don't have to worry about estimating the average bet. If you want to spread to two hands you have to tell them and they'll reserve both spots for you. (I've stopped spreading to two hands and back to one; it seems to attract some heat (as I'm only doing it at ++ counts) and always irritates SOME old asian lady at first base.) I suppose they could use the pattern of your bets for analysis, but if they are going to hawk your game, the likely still do it the old-fashioned way from the eye-in-the-sky; they need to know the cards.

You do get accurate comps this way, but your bet spread does become part of the data. (I'm not sure how detailed it is, but they at least know max bet, min bet, total bet, total # of hands, total time.) I haven't been 'evaluated' yet at any of these tables. A couple times I quizzed the suit as to the number of hands I've played to see if that tallies with my estimates of hands per hour.

 

[Liquid Chips]

They have those i-tables at the Harrington Raceway and Casino in Harrington Delaware. There the i-tables with $5 minimum bet were packed last month on Veteran's Day. The automated shoe reads the cards and the i-table knows which player the card is going to as that card shows up in your spot's screen. The shoe is also covered up so you don't see the cards after the decks are put in.

So this i-table knows how much you are betting, knows what cards you have, can analyze your betting strategy and how much you are winning or losing.

The questions I'd like to ask them is WHEN does the automated shoe read the card(s)?? Can it read the second and third cards behind the card coming out of the shoe next? Since it knows which player is going to receive the next card, will the shoe deal the second or third card if it knew that second or third card will bust the player who is winning so much or has won in the past? The cards are hidden just like in online casinos and you never know if the cards are manipulated to benefit the casino on that hand.

 

[kewljason]

So this i-table knows how much you are betting, knows what cards you have, can analyze your betting strategy and how much you are winning or losing.

Only if you insert your players card. At parx, I did not use my card. Just inserted cash and played a few hands. After a few higher wagers, I would cash out and move over a spot and insert more cash (not voucher) and play some more. The computer alone cannot track you this way. Always made it a point to move over to a spot that someone had just vacated. The computer can't distinguish if the new cash inserted is from the original player who is buying in for more or a new player as long as you insert cash and not the voucher.

The computer can't track anonymous players who move around from spot to spot. The pit pays less attention to this game as it is usually lower limit and buy-ins and color ups are done electronically. So all you really have to worry about is the 'eye' and they should be focused on this game less because it is a low limit game and they don't need to look for players capping wagers.

So all in all, this game should be advantageous to counters who play anonymously as the computer can't track them, (it takes an actual person) and with electronic buyins and color ups and wagering, the game is speeded up. (more hands/hour)

 

[Liquid Chips]

The i-table that ArticInferno and I are talking about is the one where there is a real dealer, real cards and a regular blackjack table with computer screens at each spot. The chips are for cashing out otherwise your chips are virtual chips in the screen. The i-Table and i-Shoe Auto are by (Dead link: http://www.shufflemaster.com/index.asp) _Shuffle Master_.

 

[aslan]

It is my understanding that the I-tables at Parx were determined to have been a bust. As far as tracking counters, if you play anonymously the computer can't track you as it can't determine if it is even the same player from round to round. It was reported on the other board that because of frequent mechanical failures causing high maintenance costs along with high leasing expenses, that at the end of october, Parx made the decision to eliminate these tables within 90 days. I can't imagine they would be any more successful in LV.

I played the i-table all night a Parx. At the very beginning there was a slight delay to explain some of the procedures surrounding the machines, but once the game got underway, we played all night without hardly a glitch. It actually sped up the game tremendously, since there was no chip handling, questions as to the numerical value of a hand dealt, or hand signaling the hit, dd, split, or stand decisions.

There is undoubtedly an initial learning curve, but the people at my table were not rocket scientists and they handled it just fine. I would imagine the younger the patron, the easier it is adapt to anything that is computerized or computer-like. I do not think we have seen the end of these machines, which maybe will re-emerge in some newer, slicker format. If I were the manufacturer, I would discount them deeply just to get them in play and get the public up to snuff on how to use them. No, we are only seeing the infancy stage of this new approach to blackjack; without a doubt, there is more to come. Personally, I welcome it, although I do miss the dealer payout on busted and pushed hands.

 

[kewljason]

The issues as I understand them at Parx were 1.) the equipment must be leased rather than purchased driving up the cost. 2.) frequent malfunctions requiring higher maintenance costs than expected and 3.) they were not working properly often misreading the value of cards or failing to read a players hand and then reading the remaining hands out of order. Player 'b' hand was not read and the value of player 'c' cards were credited to player 'b' and player 'd' hand credited to player 'c' and so on. This was more than a rare occurance which caused Parx not to renew their contract.

 

[Machinist]

The issues as I understand them at Parx were 1.) the equipment must be leased rather than purchased driving up the cost. 2.) frequent malfunctions requiring higher maintenance costs than expected and 3.) they were not working properly often misreading the value of cards or failing to read a players hand and then reading the remaining hands out of order. Player 'b' hand was not read and the value of player 'c' cards were credited to player 'b' and player 'd' hand credited to player 'c' and so on. This was more than a rare occurance which caused Parx not to renew their contract.

It totally amazes me that a company selling these products could have problems of these sorts.........:whip:
Good god,,,what a way to kill your company...... What happened to the testing???
Just let the casino do the testing????? Wierd..

Machinist

 

[ArcticInferno]

Aslan, I would have to disagree with you whole-heartedly.
Why hasn’t the video roulette fully taken over the roulette tables?
You can sit in front of the video screen all night by yourself and play the virtual roulette, but people don’t enjoy it as much.
They certainly do have video blackjack, so why hasn’t that replaced all the blackjack tables?
Do you think people who play $100 per hand would tolerate having to mess with the computer screen? They want the feel of the clay chip in their hands and they want to see the dealer shuffle the cards and deal out the cards in the old fashioned way.
By the way, high-rollers love double deck games, which is a "hand-held" game.
The i-Tables will remain in low limits below $15.
Also, i-Tables looks stupid, so high-end casinos like Bellagio, Aria, Wynn, The Mirage, etc., will not sacrifice their image by having i-Tables in their blackjack pit.

 

[aslan]

It totally amazes me that a company selling these products could have problems of these sorts.........:whip:
Good god,,,what a way to kill your company...... What happened to the testing???
Just let the casino do the testing????? Wierd..

Machinist

Yeah, that is weird. But it's a good opening for some other company to step in with a system that has all the bugs already worked out. Their has to be more than one company who is in a position to create this type of technology. My guess is that the slot machine manufacturers are aware of the need, and have the wherewithal to fill it. It seems to me like the gambling paraphernalia business is a hot spot to position oneself, since gambling venues are multiplying like wildfire. Have you yourself thought about getting into some facet of this business, what with your ground floor knowledge from the consumer's point of view and your obvious creative talents?