I was wrong about Thunder Valley! Cheating confirmed

[JSTAT]

On 7/1/09, a poster named "mophus" claimed on Arnold Snyder's blackjackforumonline.com that he heard that cards were being inserted that were unfavorable to 21 players at Thunder Valley Casino. An AP player at Colusa Casino told mophus that he would not step foot into Thunder Valley because it was well known that cheating at blackjack exists there. I went to Thunder Valley the same day to confirm this. I counted 10 4's on table #3 at 12:30pm on a double deck game! I left fearing a thumping from the casino operator Station Casinos if I reported this to them.

I immediately drove to the State Of California Department of Justice/Bureau of Gambling Control Compliance & Enforcement Section of the Office of the Attorney General in Sacramento. I told the Special Agent what happened. He said he would do a "surprise inspection." If anything was done, it was done in secret. Too many jobs in the Sacramento area would be affected and the bad publicity devastating to Indian Gaming if true, he said.

I reported my findings on Snyder's site. I also posted my findings on blackjackinfo.com. A poster here named "ponyplayer2" went to Thunder Valley to confirm my claims. He also counted more than 8 4's at a double deck game.

I went to Thunder Valley again on 7/7/09 as WRX did. The games were cleaned up. I played and won after an hour of counting down decks. How long will this last? The Attorney General put Station Casinos on notice. Screw up again we'll blow the lid off this scandal. I'd bet that Station Casinos contract to run Thunder Valley's casino will be terminated soon for undisclosed reasons. We will know why. I give it an over/under line of 30 days.

 

[KenSmith]

I give it an over/under line of 30 days.

What limits? :grin:

 

[creeping panther]

Jstat

On 7/1/09, a poster named "mophus" claimed on Arnold Snyder's blackjackforumonline.com that he heard that cards were being inserted that were unfavorable to 21 players at Thunder Valley Casino. An AP player at Colusa Casino told mophus that he would not step foot into Thunder Valley because it was well known that cheating at blackjack exists there. I went to Thunder Valley the same day to confirm this. I counted 10 4's on table#3 at 12:30pm. I left fearing a thumping from the casino operator Station Casinos if I reported this to them.

I immediately drove to the State Of California Department of Justice/Bureau of Gambling Control Compliance & Enforcement Section of the Office of the Attorney General. I told the Special Agent what happened. He said he would do a "surprise inspection." If anything was done, it was done in secret. Too many jobs in the Sacramento area would be affected and the bad publicity devastating to Indian Gaming if true, he said.

I reported my findings on Snyder's site. I also posted my findings on blackjackinfo.com. A poster named "Ponyplayer2" went to Thunder Valley to confirm my claims. He also counted more than 8 4's at a double deck game.

I went to Thunder Valley on 7/7/09 as WRX did. The games were cleaned up. I played and won after an hour of counting down decks. How long will this last? The Attorney General put Station Casinos on notice. Screw up again we'll blow the lid off this scandal. I'd bet that Station Casinos contract to run Thunder Valley's casino will be terminated soon for undisclosed reasons. We will know why. I give it an over/under line of 30 days.

Great Job J, you have performed a valuable service to the BJ community.:1st:

CP

 

[Thunder]

Anyone know if the Station Casinos are publicly traded. Might be a good time to short their stock.

 

[johndoe]

Nope, private company.

 

[shadroch]

Anyone know if the Station Casinos are publicly traded. Might be a good time to short their stock.

Why? Because this proven liar comes up with another fantasical story?
If he wrote that the sky was falling, would you build a bomb shelter?

 

[JSTAT]

Why? Because this proven liar comes up with another fantasical story?
If he wrote that the sky was falling, would you build a bomb shelter?

Grow up shadroch! You should be punished for attempting to ruin this thread with slander :whip: The moderators should delete shadroch's post and suspend his privledges to post for a while. I guess ponyplayer2 is also a "proven liar". I will report on Thunder Valley in a few weeks for the adults in this community.

 

[JSTAT]

Anyone know if the Station Casinos are publicly traded. Might be a good time to short their stock.

Colony Capital owns Station Casinos and other interests. They are not publicly traded. They saved Michael Jackson's Neverland Ranch from foreclosure by buying it a few weeks ago. Good timing by the private equity folks at Colony Capital.

 

[callipygian]

Grow up shadroch! You should be punished for attempting to ruin this thread with slander :whip: The moderators should delete shadroch's post and suspend his privledges to post for a while.

At least shadroch's counting system doesn't involve a side count of 4's. Why the hell would you count them in the first place?

 

[bigbjfan]

I've been watching this place close for the past few years and this doesn't surprise me. In fact it all makes better sense now. Horrible place to play.

 

[jimbiggs]

JSTAT, next time you visit that agent in Sacramento, have him check the 6 deck games at San Manuel and Pala as well.

 

[irobinson]

JSTAT, next time you visit that agent in Sacramento, have him check the 6 deck games at San Manuel and Pala as well.

Never had a problem at either of those places. I have been at tables when they open up and the put all the cards in there (I watched 'em). So unless the ASM they use is able to hide cards (and at Pala you can see the machine as it shuffles the cards) I don't think there is any funny business going on.

 

[ponyplayer2]

Thunder Valleys brand of selective shuffle

It's now been 5 times out of 24 playing sessions I've had counts of +3 or higher shuffled away due to a new dealer comming on. If the count is low or slightly positive the dealer will finish the deck out. High plus counts will result in the new dealer pushing right in without a word. One of the worst was an extreemly high count with max bet out and a match play coupon. All the other players had gone bust and left me to clean up alone:eyepatchush 20-20. another 1/2 deck to go before shuffle-nope- time to change dealers-lucky for me I could save face - my wife came up and said let's go.took my checks and walked- chucked the match play in the trash.

Hand a lot of high counts for 10 or so sessions which all ended in disaster for me. I'm sure this was normal variance but it's hard to swallow sometimes. I'm up 24 units in 20 hours so I'm doing ok for a small sample.

Also ,one evening,I heard the sound of a second being delt to the player next to me-quite distinctive. sure enough the dealer got his nine to go with the two up.

 

[somtum]

So.. how common is it that Indian Casinos do not have the cards spread on the table before dealing such as with Thunder Valley?

 

[creeping panther]

James

***quote removed by request***

Have you ever seen the cards layed out before the first shuffle?

Since you lost $100 k in 7 sessions, I wonder why you did not stop at say 5 sessions, why did you go on? You had suspicions,,,right.

CP

 

[blackjack avenger]

Petition or Law

Petition the gaming board or state legislature for the casinos to not be allowed to use pre shuffled cards. Perhaps write a paper explaining how easy it is to cheat in this manner:joker::whip:, that the cards need to be shown to players pre shuffled and then have them washed and shuffled on the table before use.

cbjn states that the cards for DD come pre shuffled and are not inspected by dealer and player. This should not be allowed.

 

[james]

Have you ever seen the cards layed out before the first shuffle?

Since you lost $100 k in 7 sessions, I wonder why you did not stop at say 5 sessions, why did you go on? You had suspicions,,,right.

CP

Would you please delete your reply to my previous message that has the Quotation of my original message? I want to remove all my post in here.

Thank you.

 

[shadroch]

Would you please delete your reply to my previous message that has the Quotation of my original message? I want to remove all my post in here.

Thank you.

Why?

 

[aslan]

Just out of curiosity, are Indian casinos actually run by Indians, or is there some independent company who runs the games and the Tribe gets a portion of the profits? I think I would trust Tribal-run games far more than those operated by an intermediary company run by a fellow named Guida, not that I wish to disparage any particular race or nationality, being one half Italian descent myself. But I think you know what I mean.

 

[tribute]

Just out of curiosity, are Indian casinos actually run by Indians, or is there some independent company who runs the games and the Tribe gets a portion of the profits? I think I would trust Tribal-run games far more than those operated by an intermediary company run by a fellow named Guida, not that I wish to disparage any particular race or nationality, being one half Italian descent myself. But I think you know what I mean.

The one I play is owned and operated by the tribe. I have sometimes wondered how their rules, laws, and procedures differ from, say, Las Vegas, where the state gaming laws prevail. How would I be treated if suspected as a cheater or counter? Since there is no desert, they would just probably throw me in the swamp to be eaten by crocks.