If I play PERFECT BS including every hand-dependant play...

[Fun_at_21]

...then it is my understanding that I can (theoretically) get within 0.10% of the house edge on a S17, DAS, 6 deck game. If I read correctly?

At that close a dead even point, wouldn't a simple ace/five awareness ON TOP of the perfect hand-dependant BS plays actually give you a miniscule edge at that close a point? Or can minor counting systems NOT be effectively mixed with perfect hand-dependant BS?

Or asked another way, is the benefit of playing perfect BS and using every proper hand-dependant play to get you to that mere .10% disadvantage, further enhanced or nullified if you're also counting aces and/or fives?

I guess what I'm really trying to find out is: Can one use an ace/five system from the assumption that they're ALREADY within .10% or less of the house? (If they have played hand-dependant perfect BS). Or is the pct gain from playing ideal BS "ruined" if you're also counting aces and fives?

I'm not sure if I'm making any sense here but I thought it couldn't hurt to ask. I've already learned a lot from this site the past couple years so I thank all of you in advance!

 

[HockeXpert]

I'm not so sure you can acheive a .1% he with 6D S17 DAS using bs and hand dependant bs. I'm pretty sure hand-dependant bs is useless for 6D and applies to sd and maybe dd only. I would say the he is clsloser to .4% off hand.

But you bring up a good question. Yes the ace/five count with perfect bs and no index plays will probably give you a SLIGHT edge but why not just learn red seven, hi-lo, ko or zen? They are more powerful and just as easy.

The hard part about this is not counting. The hard part is applying counting while looking like a ploppy.

It really doesn't take much erase the he on a good game but variance is a bitch.

Good luck.

HockeXpert

 

[QFIT]

As HockeXpert indicates, variance is the problem. See Modern Blackjack page 197-198.

 

[Fun_at_21]

I'm not so sure you can acheive a .1% he with 6D S17 DAS using bs and hand dependant bs. I'm pretty sure hand-dependant bs is useless for 6D and applies to sd and maybe dd only. I would say the he is clsloser to .4% off hand.

But you bring up a good question. Yes the ace/five count with perfect bs and no index plays will probably give you a SLIGHT edge but why not just learn red seven, hi-lo, ko or zen? They are more powerful and just as easy.

The hard part about this is not counting. The hard part is applying counting while looking like a ploppy.

It really doesn't take much erase the he on a good game but variance is a bitch.

Good luck.

Thanks for the reply.

I have looked into some of those other counting systems but, for me, they still seemed a bit more difficult for me to grasp. I think the Ace / Five appeals to me simply because I can somewhat track those by simple "awareness" rather than having to count and think per se. If that even makes sense?

But I also understand that you get out what you put in, so I can see where an ace/five count isn't optimal (if a noticeable edge is the goal). The thing with me is that I'm actually looking more for a simple "count" system to just add to and assist perfect basic strategy, rather than a system that gives a significant clear-cut edge. For me, the fun of blackjack is more in just "not (noticeably) losing" in the long run while still keeping it a "casual game of entertainment". I guess it's that fine line that most allures me. I'd like to learn enough so that my play is "free" (or a few pennies ahead in the long run) but not learn so much that I actually look suspicious or that I might actually know what I'm doing, if that makes any sense? LOL

 

[bigplayer]

Thanks for the reply.

I have looked into some of those other counting systems but, for me, they still seemed a bit more difficult for me to grasp. I think the Ace / Five appeals to me simply because I can somewhat track those by simple "awareness" rather than having to count and think per se. If that even makes sense?

But I also understand that you get out what you put in, so I can see where an ace/five count isn't optimal (if a noticeable edge is the goal). The thing with me is that I'm actually looking more for a simple "count" system to just add to and assist perfect basic strategy, rather than a system that gives a significant clear-cut edge. For me, the fun of blackjack is more in just "not (noticeably) losing" in the long run while still keeping it a "casual game of entertainment". I guess it's that fine line that most allures me. I'd like to learn enough so that my play is "free" (or a few pennies ahead in the long run) but not learn so much that I actually look suspicious or that I might actually know what I'm doing, if that makes any sense? LOL

You cannot count a shoe game effectively with "awareness". The Ace-Five count is too weak to make much of a difference with shoes and perfect composition dependent strategies are worthless for shoes. The fun of blackjack isn't playing it...it's using strategy to get an edge and winning. Playing isn't fun. Losing isn't fun. Winning is fun. I have more fun more often by using a strong strategy. Learn KO...it's so ridiculously easy there is no excuse not to.

 

[Fun_at_21]

As HockeXpert indicates, variance is the problem. See Modern Blackjack page 197-198.

Thanks for the link! I admit that's a surprising result.

How much variance is "bypassed" though if one is not OPTIMALLY betting with an Ace/Five count? My thought was I could keep my spread between just 1-4 or 1-5 units. Of course, I suspect that the strategy is less effective naturally, but I guess my question is how effective does it need to be if I'm already figuring perfect BS, hand-dependant plays and even COMPS into my house-cutting gain? Wouldn't just the latter three things in themselves already have me at close to a 0% edge (assuming a good S17 6 deck game)?

What is the pct gain of playing an ace / five count at just 1-5 units? Is it so ineffective that it doesn't even earn around .10% of a gain? I thought I even read that 1-5 units with just ace / five was even "adequate" for a tiny edge assuming perfect BS, fair rules and some comps? Not that I believe everything I read but I guess that's why I'm asking and double-checking all these.

Sorry if I'm rambling on. I appreciate the responses!

 

[NightStalker]

it'll work great for

single, double deck..
try playing s17,ds double deck with light 1-2 spread and perfect composition play. You shall be good.
For 6-deck, composition strategy is not very significant. i doubt your 0.1% HE number. For 1-deck, you can get that low house edge but not in shoe game..