If I were to use all of wongs 90 some odd indexes...

[ringlejames]

What kind of hourly rate would I be looking at dd 55-65% pen das no rsa, face up, 9k bankroll, spreading 1-6, also what is the optimal way to play this bet this spread for maximum profit?

also I can force deep pen. by spreading multiple hands, but it is a popular game usually crowded too. So max I have forced 85% pen from this game, sparingly.

 

[paddywhack]

What kind of hourly rate would I be looking at dd 55-65% pen das no rsa, face up, 9k bankroll, spreading 1-6, also what is the optimal way to play this bet this spread for maximum profit?

also I can force deep pen. by spreading multiple hands, but it is a popular game usually crowded too. So max I have forced 85% pen from this game, sparingly.

The extra gain from using all 90 indexes over the Ill18 and Fab 4 is basically nil.

 

[zengrifter]

The extra gain from using all 90 indexes over the Ill18 and Fab 4 is basically nil.

At 2D its greater than the difference of of going level-2. Just aggressively counting he can double his win rate (from .75u to 1.5u+) at a lackluster game like he describes. No? zg

 

[Automatic Monkey]

At 2D its greater than the difference of of going level-2. Just aggressively counting he can double his win rate (from .75u to 1.5u+) at a lackluster game like he describes. No? zg

You'd do far better just skipping the worst 2% of hands, which won't even be noticeable to the pit and will preclude the use of many of those indices.

 

[tthree]

You'd do far better just skipping the worst 2% of hands, which won't even be noticeable to the pit and will preclude the use of many of those indices.

Which 2 of the 90 do you speak of.

 

[aslan]

Which 2 of the 90 do you speak of.

2% of hands, not 2 of the 90 indexes. I think AM is suggesting wonging out instead of using negative indexes.

 

[blackjack avenger]

spread it out

Use at least the catch 22 indicies
Beyond probably plays against dealer 10
As AM suggesys can Wong out sparingly, at least last deck of the session

If only 1 table of DD in casino should probably play shoes also.

 

[tthree]

Those negative indices are useful when you have a dealer worth playing against for one reason or another and everyone wants in on the table.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Those negative indices are useful when you have a dealer worth playing against for one reason or another and everyone wants in on the table.

Those indices have a place, but still the most powerful way to use them is to not use them at all. You're talking about turning a 5.6% house edge into a 5.5% house edge.

 

[Lowrider]

I don't think skipping hands or wonging IN is possible in most DD games as any DD I have ever seen are exclusively NMS entry

 

[bigplayer]

What kind of hourly rate would I be looking at dd 55-65% pen das no rsa, face up, 9k bankroll, spreading 1-6, also what is the optimal way to play this bet this spread for maximum profit?

also I can force deep pen. by spreading multiple hands, but it is a popular game usually crowded too. So max I have forced 85% pen from this game, sparingly.

Indexes 1-22 have 80% of the value to be gained by index play, Indexes 20-99 have the other 20%. In fact Indexes 1-40 probably have 95% of the possible gain.

 

[ringlejames]

I don't think skipping hands or wonging IN is possible in most DD games as any DD I have ever seen are exclusively NMS entry

Ballys in Tunica has one all the time... you just have to catch it.

 

[ringlejames]

Indexes 1-22 have 80% of the value to be gained by index play, Indexes 20-99 have the other 20%. In fact Indexes 1-40 probably have 95% of the possible gain.

Appreciate it BP. tHATS THE INO i WAS LOOKING FOR. index plays 23-40 will be memorized if I can find which ones are the most important. Time to go back to hi-lo now. Thanks

 

[tthree]

Those oddball indices can make cover out of a correct play.

 

[aslan]

Those oddball indices can make cover out of a correct play.

That is correct. Only the most knowledgeable know the difference, and if there is one of them around, they already got ya-- you won't need indexes to get caught! I feel so naked when I'm counting, I sometimes think it's a wonder they don't catch me each and every time right out of the gate. I have only one thing to say to surveillance--

 

[21forme]

Sometimes BS is good cover, too. A ploppy ridiculed me for splitting 9s v 9 recently. The dealer and pit agreed with him :laugh:

 

[aslan]

Sometimes BS is good cover, too. A ploppy ridiculed me for splitting 9s v 9 recently. The dealer and pit agreed with him :laugh:

A Jersey girl at my table last night complained that she only lost her hand because this idiot next to her split nines against a dealer four. :laugh:

 

[PierceNation]

A Jersey girl at my table last night complained that she only lost her hand because this idiot next to her split nines against a dealer four. :laugh:

Ha. Last night dealer repeatedly laughed at me and shook his head everytime I hit 15 v 10. Casino Personnel are more clueless than most of us think...

 

[bigplayer]

Appreciate it BP. tHATS THE INO i WAS LOOKING FOR. index plays 23-40 will be memorized if I can find which ones are the most important. Time to go back to hi-lo now. Thanks

Learn the Hit/stand and Hard Double Down Indexes. Soft Doubles have little value to be gained via indexes except A8 vs 4,5,6 and A9 vs 5,6 if you choose to do that one. Splits also have little extra value beyond basic strategy but I'd learn 99 vs 7, when not to split 88, and 99 vs Ace has some value in high counts. Also 44 vs 4. 10-10 splitting has strong value but obviously can get you tossed out. Many of the double down plays vs dealer 2 you should add a few points to the regular index and probably should never double 10 vs 10 no matter how high the index gets.

For Surrender learn 16 vs 8,9,10, Ace, 15 vs 9,10, Ace, 14 vs 9,10, Ace, 13 vs 10, along with Hard 17 vs Ace (h17), 88 and 77 vs 10.

Generally you will want to learn more positive indexes if you table hop a lot. If you play pitch games with a fairly tight spread the negative indexes become quite valuable. Regardless, most of the Split and Soft Double indexes have relatively little value (i.e., basic strategy gets you most of the value from those).

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Learn the Hit/stand and Hard Double Down Indexes. Soft Doubles have little value to be gained via indexes except A8 vs 4,5,6 and A9 vs 5,6 if you choose to do that one. Splits also have little extra value beyond basic strategy but I'd learn 99 vs 7, when not to split 88, and 99 vs Ace has some value in high counts. Also 44 vs 4. 10-10 splitting has strong value but obviously can get you tossed out. Many of the double down plays vs dealer 2 you should add a few points to the regular index and probably should never double 10 vs 10 no matter how high the index gets.

For Surrender learn 16 vs 8,9,10, Ace, 15 vs 9,10, Ace, 14 vs 9,10, Ace, 13 vs 10, along with Hard 17 vs Ace (h17), 88 and 77 vs 10.

Generally you will want to learn more positive indexes if you table hop a lot. If you play pitch games with a fairly tight spread the negative indexes become quite valuable. Regardless, most of the Split and Soft Double indexes have relatively little value (i.e., basic strategy gets you most of the value from those).

Excellent roundup of index plays! Another reasonable approach to mixing cover with play is to avoid using some of the soft double plays below A6. You lose a little bit of EV but you get some of it back in reduced variance.