illustrious 18 odds

[Kasi]

im starting to ignore your post..... after this one anyway..... but for those who need to know .... i use hi-lo

I think what Scott meant it depends on the rules of the game and how much u bet when.

You'd need to know your average bet at what counts, the playing effiency of the play in question, the probability of occurence, the gain without indexes as a start.

To be exact would be extremely difficult to say the least.

So that's why nobody can be exact.

 

[sagefr0g]

i know its just icing on the cake but does anyone know the statistical benifit of the illustrious 18....... i just want to know b/c im sick of the old men that know basic strategy b*tching to me when i alter my play to the count

this might help but i guess you would need to know ev's for pure bs play to compare:

http://www.bjmath.com/bjmath/tcindex/r18.htm (Archive copy)

also consider this excerpt from the wizard of odds site:
"I read somewhere that half a counter's edge is in taking insurance. In the UK insurance is only offered on a blackjack. Hence in the UK a counter's edge must be about half of what it is under rules allowing insurance on any ace. Have I got this right? – Grame from London, UK
According to the famed “Illustrious 18” table in Don Schlesinger’s “Blackjack Attack” insurance is the single most valuable hand to the counter, in terms of value gained by making count dependent strategy changes. The value of taking insurance, when the true count is +3 or more, adds 0.117% to the player’s overall advantage, based on the hi-low count, spreading 1 to 8. However this does not come close to half the total advantage from strategy changes. Looking only at the top 18 count dependent plays (the Illustrious 18), plus the top 4 count dependent surrenders (the Fab Four) the total value to the counter is 0.469%. So correct insurance accounts for only 25% of the value of strategy changes. A good counter will gain about another 1% by betting more in good counts. So taking away the insurance option reduces the total value of counting by only about 8%. In the UK it would be slightly less because you can still insure with a blackjack. The advantage figures are rough and depend on lots of things. I also hear there is no surrender in London. I also hear there is no surrender in London. The value of all surrender deviations is about the same of insurance deviations."

 

[sagefr0g]

wow

excerpt from the wizard of odds site:
..."Looking only at the top 18 count dependent plays (the Illustrious 18), plus the top 4 count dependent surrenders (the Fab Four) the total value to the counter is 0.469%. So correct insurance accounts for only 25% of the value of strategy changes....."

so wow for a 6D s17 das lsr game perfect basic strategy with I18 & F4 puts you darn near even!

 

[Kasi]

so wow for a 6D s17 das lsr game perfect basic strategy with I18 & F4 puts you darn near even!

Not if you are not counting (i.e flat betting) - wasn't sure if that is what u meant or not.

Also Schlesinger's numbers were for a 4D game dealt 75% I think with a very specific betting ramp.

 

[aslan]

i know its just icing on the cake but does anyone know the statistical benifit of the illustrious 18....... i just want to know b/c im sick of the old men that know basic strategy b*tching to me when i alter my play to the count

I know. I stopped sitting at third base because of the bitching not only when I altered BS due to the count, but even when I did play normal BS in the case of hitting a 2 against an upcard of 2 or 3 (8-deck). Other players said I should have stood to make the dealer bust; instead I caused them to lose! Why do so many people not even know BS?

 

[Kasi]

I when I did play normal BS in the case of hitting a 2 against an upcard of 2 or 3 (8-deck).

Maybe u mean a 12 lol.

Screw them - u know it's right, so do it. Believe in urself. Every single time.

At whatever base.

So ur not gonna sit down at a table when only 3rd base is open because ur afraid an idiot is gonna prove he's an idiot?

Please - get a grip.

Why the heck is everyone so concerned about someone yelling at them for making the right play anyway? What is it that bothers u/anyone about it anyway?

If I had a $1 for every time someone yelled at me for making the right play, I'd be alot richer lol.

If nobody yells at me over a few hours I'm actually a little disappointed lol.

And, when they do, I throw 'em a fast ball down the middle if I feel like it.

I know I know exactly what I'm doing so what else is there to care about?

 

[sagefr0g]

Not if you are not counting (i.e flat betting) - wasn't sure if that is what u meant or not.

Also Schlesinger's numbers were for a 4D game dealt 75% I think with a very specific betting ramp.

thanks for jogging my memory. at least i think you did. if i recall correctly this scenerio requires a 1:12 bet ramp and counting as it is involving bs departures. i'll look it up when i get a chance in Blackjack Attack. and yes the numbers came from a 4D game but are meant to be useful for multiple deck as i recall.
but i'm not sure from what perspective the wiz of odds viewed it when he gave the 0.469% figure.

 

[TENNBEAR]

Wow, you guys need a pitch game, The ploppys don't know what cards your holding, so the don't question your index plays.

 

[sagefr0g]

Not if you are not counting (i.e flat betting) - wasn't sure if that is what u meant or not.

Also Schlesinger's numbers were for a 4D game dealt 75% I think with a very specific betting ramp.

well i know there is a lot of 'slack' shall we say in Schlesinger's computations so as to make i18 fit 2D thru 8D.
i just check cvcx for 6D s17 das lsr 1:12 spread i18 & f4 got ev= +0.895%
and for flat betting ev= -0.279
those are for play all.....

for wonging at tc=0
1:12 spread ev= 1.229%
and for flat betting a wopping ev= 0.236% !!!!!!!!!