Initial buy-in when you arrive at the casino to maximize comps???

[tthree]

If buy in is not used for comps why is the pit so interested in recording buy-in amount? Win/Loss tracking? What if you leave without coloring up?

If you are a big player they inventory the chips in the table bank. Anything unaccounted for was in your pocket whether it was really there or not. Not coloring up often has you credited with a bigger win than you actually had.

 

[blackjack avenger]

not quite what i said

re: blackjack avenger's post above begs comment:

He states:

Cash & large buy ins do matter. If they think you have a lot of money to lose. The most extreme example is front money, where a whale will make a large deposit with the casinno. The casino will treat them well hoping to clean them out.

For most situations you probably can't buy in enough to tip the scales."

Decades ago, in Nevada, I frequently "wired" 5 and 6 figure sums to casino cages, especially where I was an unknown player.

In every case, if the player fails to play in a fashion demonstrating that they are willing to risk a large portion of their "front money"
they will be treated no differently than anyone else - as their comps will be reviewed by the Shift Manager.

e.g. If you deposit $50,000 and play BJ 4 hrs. a day with an average bet of $100 your "front money" becomes perfectly transparent
to the casino brass; as they despise people who try to "game the system" by "playing for comps"; trying to break even or win a
modest sum while collecting maximum comps and avoiding "heat"

Taking big markers (e.g. $5,000 each) is something that they are looking for, as evidence that your attitude toward losing most of your
"good faith money" is one of insouciance; but that MUST be backed-up by a big average wager over sufficient hours of play.

So ... not only is this a poor tactic, but it readily "backfires" by revealing your true motivation.

p.s. "Wired" money may need defining.

It is a transaction wherein money is moved between bank accounts electronically.
In pre-computing times, telegraph and telephones were employed, hence the term "wired".

The process is done by the Federal Reserve Banking System that links all banks.
To do this, one needs the routing address and account numbers of the two banks
and the physical addresses as well. Most banks charge a fee of about $30 for this.
I have been comped the fee in some cases. A point to be made is that banks across
the country utilize this system primarily in the afternoon and it cannot be done at
night or on weekends. Do it in the morning and it is likely to be completed in under an hour.
Do it after noon and you may wait until the next day for completion. Banks move
profound sums after 3:00 p.m. in order to earn interest on (extremely short) loans,
measured in hours and days.

Did you really think that your money just collects dust while the moon is shining ?
[/QUOTE/

I said sometimes,
large buy ins can help, but you do have to play of course.
I think we agree more then not
Like most things it comes down to personal experience

 

[FrankieT]

If you are a big player they inventory the chips in the table bank. Anything unaccounted for was in your pocket whether it was really there or not. Not coloring up often has you credited with a bigger win than you actually had.

Really?

So you think it's always good to let them in on how much you won/loss because if they are clueless they always assume the worst?

They might assume somebody else at the table ratholed a bunch of chips.

So you think not coloring up all your chips is counter productive? What if you bought your chips from craps and they have no read on how many you started with?

 

[Gamblor]

Really?

So you think it's always good to let them in on how much you won/loss because if they are clueless they always assume the worst?

They might assume somebody else at the table ratholed a bunch of chips.

So you think not coloring up all your chips is counter productive? What if you bought your chips from craps and they have no read on how many you started with?

Furthermore if they really did this, they would do it to everybody, making the numbers they record essentially useless.

 

[Most Interesting Man]

The way I interpret it is that if you play a HL game solo then they'll know the results just by comparing what's in the tray against what was in there when you started. If you're playing with other people at the table then your objective could be to rathole faster than the other players and be the last to leave in an attempt to push the missing chips onto the accounts of others. Sensible?

 

[FLASH1296]

It is always amusing to me how peeps on this forum imagine that they can play in a HL room,
betting black, and get away with "ratholing"; AS IF the "eye in the sky" is not watching !

 

[Dyepaintball12]

Don't buy in for more than you really need, the smaller the better. Rathole as much as possible but RH'ing Black may not be doing you any good as they watch it closely.

If you get caught RH'ing, just say "I don't want anyone seeing all my chips on the table..." or something.

 

[FLASH1296]

Ploppies may put chips in their pocket, (as if they are trying to get themselves to take them home), but they do NOT "rathole" -- which is a transparent attempt to surreptitiously hide one's winnings.

 

[shadroch]

Have your girlfriend or significant other come along and bitch about losing all her money on slots. Then give her a handful of chips and have her skip away.

 

[tthree]

Really?

So you think it's always good to let them in on how much you won/loss because if they are clueless they always assume the worst?

They might assume somebody else at the table ratholed a bunch of chips.

So you think not coloring up all your chips is counter productive? What if you bought your chips from craps and they have no read on how many you started with?

I play on the floor and every time a big bettor leaves they count down the chip tray. They assign all chips to someone to balance the tray, any at this count down they are assigned to the big bettor. Unless of course he colored up. Then they don't always count down the chip tray. Their assigning chips is not perfect. You can be assigned too many or too few. Bringing chips into the game without notice can certainly skew their assessment from reality. Nobody said their assessment would be accurate. Only that the assessment is what ends up in their computer.

 

[jerseyshop101]

Thanks for all the feedback!

For those who frequent the same casinos regularly, can you pretty much predict what your comps per hour will be? Also, please forgive me if this is a dumb question, but are your comps per/hr always higher during your losing sessions? Or again, is it only your time spent at the tables and your bet amounts the only thing that matters?

TIA

 

[Thunder]

I play on the floor and every time a big bettor leaves they count down the chip tray. They assign all chips to someone to balance the tray, any at this count down they are assigned to the big bettor. Unless of course he colored up. Then they don't always count down the chip tray. Their assigning chips is not perfect. You can be assigned too many or too few. Bringing chips into the game without notice can certainly skew their assessment from reality. Nobody said their assessment would be accurate. Only that the assessment is what ends up in their computer.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it their assessment what gets sent to the IRS if they have you making more $10,000+ If so, I would think this could cause some legal messes as how can they be sure that their assessment is accurate?

 

[Thunder]

Thanks for all the feedback!

For those who frequent the same casinos regularly, can you pretty much predict what your comps per hour will be? Also, please forgive me if this is a dumb question, but are your comps per/hr always higher during your losing sessions? Or again, is it only your time spent at the tables and your bet amounts the only thing that matters?

TIA

Well I can tell you that depending on the casino, you will g et rated anywhere from $1-$1.50/hr for playing at a red chip table. (if they happen to see you betting more for an extended period of time, you might get more) At a green chip table, I've seen it around $2.50-$5/hr, again it depends on the casino and if the pitboss actually bothers to adjust your average bet for when you're betting more. I don't know if this is true or not but I also suspect it depends on what skill level they have you rated at as well. How much you win or lose has nothing to do with it.

 

[tthree]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it their assessment what gets sent to the IRS if they have you making more $10,000+ If so, I would think this could cause some legal messes as how can they be sure that their assessment is accurate?

This is not an area of my expertise so take this with a grain of salt. It is cashing out $10,000 that gets reported to the IRS. You could walk with $50,000 in chips and have the casino cage cut you a check for $50,000 and the IRS will not be notified. There was no cash involved in the transfer. Many of the high rollers I have played with do this. I know some APs here are more knowledgeable than I on this subject and could correct me in a flash if I am mistaken.

 

[FrankieT]

Ploppies may put chips in their pocket, (as if they are trying to get themselves to take them home), but they do NOT "rathole" -- which is a transparent attempt to surreptitiously hide one's winnings.

I always thought the definition of "ratholing" was shoving chips in your pocket or a pouch of some sort (fanny pack or something).

 

[shadroch]

This is not an area of my expertise so take this with a grain of salt. It is cashing out $10,000 that gets reported to the IRS. You could walk with $50,000 in chips and have the casino cage cut you a check for $50,000 and the IRS will not be notified. There was no cash involved in the transfer. Many of the high rollers I have played with do this. I know some APs here are more knowledgeable than I on this subject and could correct me in a flash if I am mistaken.

I don't believe that to be the case. A check is currency, just as cash is.
Its not a Cash Transaction Report, its a Currency Transaction Report.

 

[johndoe]

This is not an area of my expertise so take this with a grain of salt. It is cashing out $10,000 that gets reported to the IRS. You could walk with $50,000 in chips and have the casino cage cut you a check for $50,000 and the IRS will not be notified. There was no cash involved in the transfer. Many of the high rollers I have played with do this. I know some APs here are more knowledgeable than I on this subject and could correct me in a flash if I am mistaken.

CTR's aren't reported to the IRS. They're for money laundering prevention, not tax purposes.

 

[Gamblor]

Well I can tell you that depending on the casino, you will g et rated anywhere from $1-$1.50/hr for playing at a red chip table. (if they happen to see you betting more for an extended period of time, you might get more) At a green chip table, I've seen it around $2.50-$5/hr, again it depends on the casino and if the pitboss actually bothers to adjust your average bet for when you're betting more. I don't know if this is true or not but I also suspect it depends on what skill level they have you rated at as well. How much you win or lose has nothing to do with it.

I tend to think bad players get rated better than good players, I know of one personally who bets around the same bet range as I do, but plays worse than BS, and gets better comps than I do at many stores. However, this person very ocassionally plays slots, so that might account for it - casinos love slots player, maybe even though they hardly play.

And agreed the vast majority of casinos don't rate you higher. However, if your at a casino where its up to discretion of the pit to give you a comp (if they don't have an automated points system, or give virtually nothing to table players), you will tend to get more comps when you ask and are losing. Even if at a store with automated points, its still worth it to ask for some goodies.

 

[FLASH1296]

If a casino views a player as a genuinely bad player, (not a card counter with
some cover plays and a narrow spread, playing a break even game), whose
patronage they really desire, they can increase the 24% factor in the comping
algorithm to 40%.

It is at the discretion of the Shift Manager and is generally only extended under
certain circumstances e.g. when the sucker in question needs a lot more comp
points to keep him in the house. At least in Las Vegas this is true as stated.

 

[tthree]

I tend to think bad players get rated better than good players, I know of one personally who bets around the same bet range as I do, but plays worse than BS, and gets better comps than I do at many stores. However, this person very ocassionally plays slots, so that might account for it - casinos love slots player, maybe even though they hardly play.

And agreed the vast majority of casinos don't rate you higher. However, if your at a casino where its up to discretion of the pit to give you a comp (if they don't have an automated points system, or give virtually nothing to table players), you will tend to get more comps when you ask and are losing. Even if at a store with automated points, its still worth it to ask for some goodies.

Ive had trouble getting comps when i want from the pit. I always get them but it can take a while. Whenever I start cleaning out the chip tray they come at lightning speed.