Is this bad AP Etiquette?

[DoubleOnHard20]

Look, whether there is a legal barrier to posting indicies is very different than whether it's polite to do so or not. Legally, sure, it's probably not copyrightable. But really, just go and buy the book already. It's worth it.

The main reason for getting blackjack books is to get playing deviations. There's still lots of useful information in the books, but one of the biggest reasons is full indices. If it's not illegal, they should be posted so people who buy blackjack books are buying it for the rest of the information in the book.

A book about avoiding detection would be worth more than any other blackjack book if full indices were posted online. Even tips about avoiding detection are not copyrightable.

It looks like the only thing that is copyrighted about non-fiction is the way that facts are expressed by the author: https://www.artslaw.com.au/article/a-matter-of-fact-non-fiction-and-copyright/

If you want to give advice that comes from a book, all you have to do is reword the advice to avoid copyright infringement. You could read a book about avoiding detection as an advantage player in a casino, and repeat the advice using your own words to others. Facts are not copyrighted. Only the way a fact is expressed by an author is copyrighted.

 

[johndoe]

Legally, you are correct, and I find the excessive claims about copyright (especially from Norm) offensive and distasteful. But I don't think you need to make this into a crusade. There's a difference between being legally allowed to do something, and it being appropriate to do.

 

[DoubleOnHard20]

Legally, you are correct, and I find the excessive claims about copyright (especially from Norm) offensive and distasteful. But I don't think you need to make this into a crusade. There's a difference between being legally allowed to do something, and it being appropriate to do.

BJInfo is basically dead now compared to many years ago. I'm trying to help people. This forum is definitely the appropriate place to post playing deviations and give advice. Promoting your own book is definitely inappropriate, and that is exactly what Don does.

 

[johndoe]

This isn't helping.

If you just posted your own chart and said "hey I made a useful chart" I doubt anyone would take issue. Making a crusade out of it in two threads so far is cluttering things up.

Nothing wrong with promoting your own book, as long as it's legit. (and it is)

 

[DoubleOnHard20]

This isn't helping.

If you just posted your own chart and said "hey I made a useful chart" I doubt anyone would take issue. Making a crusade out of it in two threads so far is cluttering things up.

Nothing wrong with promoting your own book, as long as it's legit. (and it is)

The only people taking issue to this are the people who are making a profit off of facts and claiming "their" facts as copyrighted. DSchles even said that if they were lucky, I would be sued.

 

[johndoe]

The only people taking issue to this are the people who are making a profit off of facts and claiming "their" facts as copyrighted. DSchles even said that if they were lucky, I would be sued.

That's not true, you've made this some giant crusade that's now spilled onto two threads.

Legally, I agree with your point. But practically, you're being a real ass about it.

 

[DoubleOnHard20]

That's not true, you've made this some giant crusade that's now spilled onto two threads.

Legally, I agree with your point. But practically, you're being a real ass about it.

Alright I'll stop, but nothing can stop me from adding more indices to the original thread if someone who has CVData sends them to me. It's legal.

 

[xengrifter]

Yeah he is profiting alright. For the few dollars he makes a year vs the time he spends answering questions and helping us all, he is probably earning himself 2-3 cents per hour.

Then I think I oughta be able to get an hour of private consultation for a dollar, don't you think?

 

[xengrifter]

Alright I'll stop, but nothing can stop me from adding more indices to the original thread if someone who has CVData sends them to me. It's legal.

Yes, perfectly legal.
Accurate indexes can also even be computed by hand / algebra, which is what I use.

Some have said not the index numbers, but rather the card tag values are what can be copyrighted... But many of the identical tag sets have also been used by different authors under different names: Dubner, Plus Minus, HiLo, etc.

And different computations performed under different assumptions of penetration produce different indices.

Any claim of copyright regarding indexes or tags is unenforceable IMO.

 

[xengrifter]

The main reason for getting blackjack books is to get playing deviations.

Wrong.

 

[DoubleOnHard20]

Wrong.

Would you buy a blackjack book if it didn't have any indices in it? Basic strategy charts are available online for free. Buying a blackjack book that doesn't increase EV or decrease Risk of Ruin by having indices in it would be the worst trade deal in the history of trade deals.