Just a thought

Severity8

Well-Known Member
As I delve off into my new found adventure the thought occurs to me at what point will my friends or family try to intervene with problem gambler or gamblers anonymous or some other form of addiction help. Now I don't intend on spreading the news of my one unit an hour advantage, so all they will see is their friend, husband, son going to the casino on quite a regular basis, and if I can rat-hole as much as planned if they know anyone at the casino or speak to them it's gonna seem I'm loosing alot. What do you do in this instance? How do you Heisman this? Gonna be difficult to explain or am I completely out of my head here? Have any of you dealt with this? Thoughts?

Sev~
 

Dyepaintball12

Well-Known Member
Oh man I have been through this! My whole life my parents knew I was really into blackjack but they just assumed I was "gambling".

One day I actually sat them down and was like "Hey, this is what I am doing. I am counting cards and I have an advantage over the long run, and I am going to be making a lot of trips around the country with friends playing."

They seemed to understand, but my mom, every time, asks "So how much did you lose?" :laugh:
 

Severity8

Well-Known Member
ya

I've done the same but they just flat out cannot wrap their heads around the term varience. A little negative varience and they become brick walls.
 

kewljason

Well-Known Member
Severity8 said:
I've done the same but they just flat out cannot wrap their heads around the term varience. A little negative varience and they become brick walls.
And they never will. :sad: And even if you are successful for a reasonable period of time, like a number of years, they will still think that your 'luck' is bound to run out. It gets to the point that you stop trying to explain things to them as well as share things, and this aspect of your life, becomes private and you will feel a little isolated at times. It's hard to explain. Just a part of your life that you can not share with friends and family. The message boards help some. :)
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
kewljason said:
And they never will. :sad: And even if you are successful for a reasonable period of time, like a number of years, they will still think that your 'luck' is bound to run out. It gets to the point that you stop trying to explain things to them as well as share things, and this aspect of your life, becomes private and you will feel a little isolated at times. It's hard to explain. Just a part of your life that you can not share with friends and family. The message boards help some. :)
I have a brother who can't understand, figures I am just a gambling addict, and probably assumes my explanations about player advantage are just a rationalization, although he has been polite enough not to say anything.

My Mom was pretty cool with it, but she's dead now.

My wife stated that she didn't mind me gambling as long as it was with my own money! That's when I stopped sharing my wins with her! WTF! I used to come home and give her tons of comp gifts and as much as $500 to boot. TT.

I share what I do with my gambling friends, but even the majority of them say that blackjack cannot be beat. Even one fellow who can count cards tells me it's not worth the effort-- the advantage is too small. But then, he's a millionaire, so I can sort of understand, although I'd rather have a 2% edge than some of the games I see him make at pool.

The other thing that surprises me is that of all the gamblers I know who frequent the casinos, not one of them has ever asked for tips on how to win at blackjack. They all think they know all they need to know I guess, and all they remember is the one or two times they won a long shot. Other than that, they are perpetual losers, except one friend who plays basic strategy and hunches-- maybe he's lying about his winning record, I don't know, but I tend to believe he's a lucky basic strategy player up to this point. I was able to turn him on to VP as an alternative to slots-- that was a mild accomplishment, although he still plays certain slots.

My short answer is, you can share what you do with others, but don't expect them to understand. I mean, what gambler do you know who doesn't have a winning system? They all talk the same crap, even though they cannot spell advantage play. Only someone who knows you to the core will ever believe what you tell them about beating the casinos, and even they might believe that you've been duped.
 

Sucker

Well-Known Member
Make a proposition bet with the non believers. Offer to take them with you and bet them $100 that after an agreed on period of time you'll be ahead. Problem is, no matter how much you goad them; It's most likely that not even ONE of these know-it-alls will ever have the guts to put their money where their mouth is! :whip:

I guess I'm lucky. My whole family and all of my friends think I'm some sort of a mathematical genius. Maybe it's because I've never even TRIED to justify my actions to any of them; rather I just quietly go about my business. Or maybe it's because I haven't had a REAL job in 30 years, but I always have money. :grin:
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
Sucker said:
Make a proposition bet with the non believers. Offer to take them with you and bet them $100 that after an agreed on period of time you'll be ahead. Problem is, no matter how much you goad them; It's most likely that not even ONE of these know-it-alls will ever have the guts to put their money where their mouth is! :whip:

I guess I'm lucky. My whole family and all of my friends think I'm some sort of a mathematical genius. Maybe it's because I've never even TRIED to justify my actions to any of them; rather I just quietly go about my business. Or maybe it's because I haven't had a REAL job in 30 years, but I always have money. :grin:
They're all whispering, "I wonder where he gets his money?" "Do you think he's doing anything illegal?" "Everyone knows that no one wins in the casinos; they don't build those fancy places from winners." "Do you think he's mixed up with the Mafia or something?" "He always has money; he must be doing something." :laugh:
 

BJgenius007

Well-Known Member
aslan said:
I have a brother who can't understand, figures I am just a gambling addict, and probably assumes my explanations about player advantage are just a rationalization, although he has been polite enough not to say anything.

My Mom was pretty cool with it, but she's dead now.

My wife stated that she didn't mind me gambling as long as it was with my own money! That's when I stopped sharing my wins with her! WTF! I used to come home and give her tons of comp gifts and as much as $500 to boot. TT.

I share what I do with my gambling friends, but even the majority of them say that blackjack cannot be beat. Even one fellow who can count cards tells me it's not worth the effort-- the advantage is too small. But then, he's a millionaire, so I can sort of understand, although I'd rather have a 2% edge than some of the games I see him make at pool.

The other thing that surprises me is that of all the gamblers I know who frequent the casinos, not one of them has ever asked for tips on how to win at blackjack. They all think they know all they need to know I guess, and all they remember is the one or two times they won a long shot. Other than that, they are perpetual losers, except one friend who plays basic strategy and hunches-- maybe he's lying about his winning record, I don't know, but I tend to believe he's a lucky basic strategy player up to this point. I was able to turn him on to VP as an alternative to slots-- that was a mild accomplishment, although he still plays certain slots.

My short answer is, you can share what you do with others, but don't expect them to understand. I mean, what gambler do you know who doesn't have a winning system? They all talk the same crap, even though they cannot spell advantage play. Only someone who knows you to the core will ever believe what you tell them about beating the casinos, and even they might believe that you've been duped.
Since it is my dad who taught me BJ when I was seven so I have no trouble with him. My mom knows I am a Computer Science genius so I just told her this is computer stuff, thus she has no trouble taking my words for it, either.

The only trouble I have is that I saw what BJ could do to one individual even one has the advantage. My dad was a professor teaching Accounting and Statistics. And he is a very successful CPA in a big firm, so he knows this stuff. But gambling almost destroyed him and his marriage. At one point, he was addicted after a big negative variance, trying to recoup his loss. He went straight to casino after work and got home at 3 or 4 AM. This was going on 7 days a week and lasted about 4 months. My dad collects Italian suits and shoes. My mom destroyed one suit every night. She sat at a chair near the door and cut it into thousands of pieces. So she literally destroyed 100+ suits. I know it is very psycho. At that period of time, I hardly saw him. And he did not speak one word to me in that four months. It was like he is possessed. And Mom went crazy on us. She wanted us to drink bleach or jumped off Brooklyn Bridge etc. She said she wants to see Dad regret in the rest of his life after everyone in his family is dead. Every day she would invent a new way how to kill ourselves and told us at dinner. One day she seemed serious, although I was only ten, I took my sisters and headed to my grandparents' house and told them everything. There was an intervention. And it works. Dad never went to AC again, not we know of, at least.

The morale of the true story is that you never know how serious the negative variance could happen to one individual. Maybe it will take one million hands to reverse. So lesson learned. I will always play green chips even I know I could earn more playing black chips or higher.
 
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aslan

Well-Known Member
BJgenius007 said:
Since it is my dad who taught me BJ when I was seven so I have no trouble with him. My mom knows I am a Computer Science genius so I just told her this is computer stuff, thus she has no trouble taking my words for it, either.

The only trouble I have is that I saw what BJ could do to one individual even one has the advantage. My dad was a professor teaching Accounting and Statistics. And he is a very successful CPA in a big firm, so he knows this stuff. But gambling almost destroyed him and his marriage. At one point, he was addicted after a big negative variance, trying to recoup his loss. He went straight to casino after work and got home at 3 or 4 AM. This was going on 7 days a week and lasted about 4 months. My dad collects Italian suits and shoes. My mom destroyed one suit every night. She sat at a chair near the door and cut it into thousands of pieces. So she literally destroyed 100+ suits. I know it is very psycho. At that period of time, I hardly saw him. And he did not speak one word to me in that four months. It was like he is possessed. And Mom went crazy on us. She wanted us to drink bleach or jumped off Brooklyn Bridge etc. She said she wants to see Dad regret in the rest of his life after everyone in his family is dead. Every day she would invent a new way how to kill ourselves and told us at dinner. One day she seemed serious, although I was only ten, I took my sisters and headed to my grandparents' house and told them everything. There was an intervention. And it works. Dad never went to AC again, not we know of, at least.

The morale of the true story is that you never know how serious the negative variance could happen to one individual. Maybe it will take one million hands to reverse. So lesson learned. I will always play green chips even I know I could earn more playing black chips or higher.
Sorry about what you went through. Sounds like a real nightmare. Glad you survived intact.

But a good lesson. Never allow gambling to become an obsession. Never let it dictate your life. Never bet more than you can afford to lose. Never believe it can't happen to you. Always remember the people in your life are more valuable than all the money and winning in the world.
 

BJgenius007

Well-Known Member
aslan said:
Sorry about what you went through. Sounds like a real nightmare. Glad you survived intact.

But a good lesson. Never allow gambling to become an obsession. Never let it dictate your life. Never bet more than you can afford to lose. Never believe it can't happen to you. Always remember the people in your life are more valuable than all the money and winning in the world.
Who said I survive? One sister, who was seven when it happened, and I never get married. The other sister who was four never remembers any of it. I am glad she is happily married. Even today, I am still very afraid of my mom.
 

blackriver

Well-Known Member
BJgenius007 said:
Who said I survive? One sister, who was seven when it happened, and I never get married. The other sister who was four never remembers any of it. I am glad she is happily married. Even today, I am still very afraid of my mom.
yo dude, people are crazy. proof is people GETTING MARIED! the fact that you think this i keeping you from being whole is sad too. getting to see how marriage makes people crazy and want to kill themselves is enlightenment. sorry for the hijack

just tell people your going to the casino to play poker.

if word gets back to them, explain the minimum of cc to them. "House has an edge that fluctuates between 10% and -10%. when the deck has a lot of aces i get paid 3:2 for bj while losing only 1:1 when house has it. i also make more successful double downs. so i just bet more when a lot of small cards come out. and in the long run ill win." also explain your bankroll strategy a simply as can be (dont get into N0 and STD etc). just say i have 10k (or whatever) set asside for this. a good way to tell if you are rolled or not is if you cant explain your bankroll situation/strategy to a friend your doing something wrong.

also, tell them not to repeat this to anyone. "its our secret, ok?"
 
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Severity8 said:
As I delve off into my new found adventure the thought occurs to me at what point will my friends or family try to intervene with problem gambler or gamblers anonymous or some other form of addiction help. Now I don't intend on spreading the news of my one unit an hour advantage, so all they will see is their friend, husband, son going to the casino on quite a regular basis, and if I can rat-hole as much as planned if they know anyone at the casino or speak to them it's gonna seem I'm loosing alot. What do you do in this instance? How do you Heisman this? Gonna be difficult to explain or am I completely out of my head here? Have any of you dealt with this? Thoughts?

Sev~
It won't work. We are born to what we are- an uncommon combination of intelligence, ambition and confidence. Don't ever forget how exceptional you are.

What you can tell them: "I'm not quite gambling. Using solid and proven mathematical science, I am manipulating the game through my play and betting so that the odds are slightly in my favor, instead of the casino's favor. Although there will always be risk and variability of results, I am heavily favored to earn a solid income from my play at casinos over the long term."

What they will hear: "Gamble gamble gamble gamble gamble gamble gamble gamble gamble gamble gamble I like to gamble gamble gamble gamble gamble gamble gamble gamble gamble gamble gamble gamble gamble because I'm a gambler gamble gamble gamble gamble gamble gamble gamble gamble gamble..."
 

blackjack avenger

Well-Known Member
Timing is Everything

& Results speak for themselves

If you don't have to tell, then probably don't. If you feel eventually you will have to, try to wait until you have a big lead on the casino. If you can get to 1/4 to 1/8th kelly resizing:rolleyes: it will be very very hard to lose it all back. So winning and holding onto it will give you credibility.

If you go broke you prove the doubters correct because perhaps:
Your skill was not up to standard.
You played bad games
You had poor money managment
Your bank was to small from the beginning
 
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blackchipjim

Well-Known Member
Loners

This is one of the biggest sticking points for all aps. Relationships do suffer from what we do and so goes any complusion. Are you complusive in general or just about playing bj? I know I've had a few bumps in the road due to my frequency of playing. I had to cut back or listen to the music. I play and I play when I want to or can but I won't neglect my responsibilities to play,well maybe a little.:laugh:
 

1357111317

Well-Known Member
Just simplify it a lot. Pull out a coin. Tell them you will flip it, if they guess right, they win 11 dollars, if they are wrong, they pay you ten. Askk them if they accept. If they don't, then tell them youll take the 11, they take the 10. See what they say.

Also if people invest in the stack market you can relate it to them that way. Say its just like that except what i do, I can mathematically prove results, and know what you can expect to win, whereas in the stock market, most expected results are based off past performance, you cant really predict results mathematically. From the statistics aspect of it, we are gambling less in blackjack than people are in the stock market because we can predict and know what to expect mathematically whereas you can't in the stock market.
 

revrac

Well-Known Member
Yeah, almost none of my friends believe it is possible. I love the way they act too as if your lying about it to try to cover up your habit. One guy after hearing about how much I brought back after the last trip with some friends said, "yeah, well i know someone who made 100 grand on one trip and then the next trip lost 140 grand so you just wait." and one of my other friend's girlfriend who had heard us talk about going several times before told me she knows there is no way i could possibly ever count as she asked her dad and he told her it was not possible and he is a CPA and owns his own business (god is she ever annoying). Just about the only friend who believes it is one of my good friends who I've taught how to count and is now almost obsessed with it as I am. Its ok though, doesn't matter if anyone believes, not doing it to impress people, its fun to make some extra money while getting free food and drinks and beating the system. I don't think i could do it full time though, those dealing with that would have to put up with a lot more crap and my hat is off to you.
 

Southpaw

Well-Known Member
Everyone Understands Hole-Carding

Indeed, very few lamens are going to be able to understand the dynamics of card-counting and shuffle-tracking, after only having it explained to them in a few sentences. They will most likely write you off as a confused degenerate that tries to justify his gambling with illegitimate methods.

If, indeed, you want to share your "tales from the felt," share those that are easily comprehended. I think even someone who hasn't walked in a casino realizes that if you are able to see the cards that the casino intentionally hides that you are unequivocally playing with a sizable advantage. If they still don't believe that an advantage can be had with HC'ing, then have them around when things get sweaty, and I think they will quickly realize that you are up to something serious.

Thus, you should either (1) become a HC'er, (2) become a liar or (3) keep your lips sealed.

Spaw
 

moo321

Well-Known Member
I've gotten a lot of ****, even from people who are normally smart. I'm finding it's best to just never talk about it with the muggles.
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
I like that.

muggle [from J.K. Rowling's Harry Potter books, 1998] A non-wizard. Not as disparaging as luser; implies vague pity rather than contempt. In the universe of Rowling's enormously (and deservedly) popular children's series, muggles and wizards inhabit the same modern world, but each group is ignorant of the commonplaces of the others' existence ? most muggles are unaware that wizards exist, and wizards (used to magical ways of doing everything) are perplexed and fascinated by muggle artifacts. In retrospect it seems completely inevitable that hackers would adopt this metaphor, and in hacker usage it readily forms compounds such as muggle-friendly. Compare luser, mundane, chainik, newbie.
http://onlinedictionary.datasegment.com/word/muggle
 
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