Ken Smith vs. Zengrifter vs. LVHCM

[Craps Master]

LVHCM has made the most money, Ken Smith has made the most fame, but come on, Zengrifter has the most skills.

What, purportedly side counting sevens while using the Zen count with maybe ~10 of the indices (and not even the 10 most powerful) on a $5 to $40 spread at double deck constitutes having the most skills? Interesting.

 

[supercoolmancool]

What, purportedly side counting sevens while using the Zen count with maybe ~10 of the indices (and not even the 10 most powerful) on a $5 to $40 spread at double deck constitutes having the most skills? Interesting.

Craps Master, buddy, you and I both know LVHCM is the best, and that nothing is going to change that. You must consider that at the time Zengrifter had only one vote, and I couldn't bare to see him go down like that. He's a person with feelings. All of are. You can’t just go around telling people they are no good at something that they passionately devote their entire being to. No one deserves to go through that kind of deflation. You have inadvertently created a rather hostile environment of which I am ill-suited by nature. Too intimidated by all you big-wigs my grief has retarded my social engagement with the other members. I am scared to post anymore advice for fear that I will be at the mercy of the council. I am inspired by Zengrifter and Ken Smith's fortitude to continue moving forward through thier greiving in the face of your licentious jabs of slander. Your licentious jabs of slander, that I know you thought were justified, I know you were just trying to help. You are a great mecenary crusader for following your heart just like everyone else. No one is right and no one is wrong. God what a crazy mixed up world we live in when everyone goes in with nothing but the best of intentions only to have things turn out this way. Can't we all just get along? May I just need to grow up. Maybe this is a wake up call to me to realize that the world works in truely "meaningless, chaotic, and irrational ways." Listen, Zengrifter needed my help, and for that I make no apologies. Seems like everything’s a struggle these days. I did what anyone would have done. I do not hold the answers. I don’t know what to do.......help

 

[Sonny]

I have abstained from voting in this poll. All three players are very skillful in their own way and I have great respect for them all. I see no reason to turn this into a contest.

lvhcm apparently shuns card counting, but relies more heavily on hole-carding. is he known to anyone?

I am very aware of the person he claims to be. If he really is who he claims to be (an ex-bartender from the Palace Station) then he is widely recognized within the BJ community.

-Sonny-

 

[Automatic Monkey]

It is irrelevant who LVHCM is. What is relevant is that this site is an extension of Ken's home, and he invites us in asking nothing more than that we remain civil to one another, and a couple of people couldn't even find it within themselves to conform to this simple request.

It's as if you invited someone to a party, and he comes, pulls down his pants and takes a dump on your living room floor. It's not going to matter who he is or how much respect you have for whatever kind of skills he has- you're not going to have any respect for him as an individual and you're not going to be inviting him back.

 

[Mimosine]

It is irrelevant who LVHCM is. What is relevant is that this site is an extension of Ken's home, and he invites us in asking nothing more than that we remain civil to one another, and a couple of people couldn't even find it within themselves to conform to this simple request.

kudos.

this has been a really great place where i've learned a lot from a lot of people and this whole situation is serving the intent of the architect who has created it - which runs counter to why i visit.

as far as who has the most skills, who cares.

as far as i'm concerned only one of the 3 people in the poll has contributed anything to my understanding here, and that's zg. no offense to ken, without him we wouldn't have this great space to do what we do in, and so he gets my respect for a different reason.

 

[MEDITANK]

voted for ZG, with Ken being a very close second. both IMO have contributed immensely to this site and both have priceless advice for newbies such as myself. A big thank you to the both of them.

 

[FGK42]

Ken's the man

I've had the opportunity to play against Ken in BJ tournaments. If anyone doubts Ken's abilities I suggest they get a subscription to All In magazine and read Ken's column, Tournament Zone.

There are many aspects to BJ, especially when playing against the house, AP or team play. Now try doing that in a BJT and it's a whole NEW ballgame. Why because you not only have the strategic play but the betting strategy.

On an aside while playing at a casino north of the border I overheard a pit lady make a comment to the dealer & player at the table which I was playing. It was something along these lines, "Yeah that's Ken Smith back there. He's probably one of the top 10 card counters in the world. He can count down a deck in around 20 seconds." (HER words, not mine).

PS Ken was unaware of her comments as he was talking to fellow BJ players. Ken definately had HERE respect, as he has mine too!

But how do you measure "best"?

Most money won/least money lost?

Longest amount of playing time?

Best resume/credentials/etc...

How about someone who gives back to the BJ community and is willing to help others? Does that count?

Ambassador status?

If you really wanted an answer, which I don't think you do, sponsor a heads up best 2 of 3 BJT between LVHCM and Zen and Ken. Do it round robin style, 30 hands and use a single deck.

Or another method is to have all 3 players given 2,000 in chips. Play against the house, 1 or 2 shoes, no max bets. Most chips at the end of two shoes is the winner.

 

[Mimosine]

There are many aspects to BJ, especially when playing against the house, AP or team play.

i'm not really interested in tournaments, so to me crazy-ass antics, theories, cracking CSMs, tracking, steering, hole carding, cover play, all those things are more entertaining and enthralling, those are the "hooks" that get me excited about playing more and learning more...

e.g. : quote:
I had a whole table betting Royal20s sidebet (similar to Lladies). When I would give the signal one of them would imitate cavalry trumpet and the others would shout CHARGE and bet. This went on for nearly an hour before the pit told us "no sidebets." zg

 

[KenSmith]

"Yeah that's Ken Smith back there. He's probably one of the top 10 card counters in the world."

Amusing, but woefully uninformed. Technical skill isn't what would put someone in the top 10 anyway in my opinion. Anybody can get proficient at card counting if they apply themselves. However... getting the money is what the game is about, and I long ago made choices that limit my ability to do that. I'm still happy with my choices, but they are what they are.

For example, in this same casino that fgk is talking about, I hadn't been on property more than 30 minutes when the shift manager came by as I was standing behind a table. He greeted me by name, and told me he hoped I was having an enjoyable stay. I hadn't so much as sat down at a table.

Being well-known is not conducive to game longevity for advantage players. That's why the best 10 card counters in the world are people you've never heard of.

 

[halcyon1234]

E. Cipher, cause his strands can cure cancer!

 

[bj bob]

It is irrelevant who LVHCM is.
It's as if you invited someone to a party, and he comes, pulls down his pants and takes a dump on your living room floor. It's not going to matter who he is or how much respect you have for whatever kind of skills he has- you're not going to have any respect for him as an individual and you're not going to be inviting him back.

Ah! That's why the pit at the El Dorado got so uptight when I poopood on their "Mindplay" table. Thanks, Monk!

 

[zengrifter]

Zengrifter needed my help, and for that I make no apologies.

Thanks to all for the votes of confidence!!! For everyone who voted for me I want to extend a very special invitation to combine BRs - a joint bankroll, and I will be the team treasurer - its not just a can't miss opportunity - its an adventure that I offer you all! zg

Zengrifter Teaches "TRUTH"

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Thanks to all for the votes of confidence!!! For everyone who voted for me I want to extend a very special invitation to combine BRs - a joint bankroll, and I will be the team treasurer - its not just a can't miss opportunity - its an adventure that I offer you all! zg

Wow that is really funny!

That's cool, you can be the team treasurer, and I will be the team enforcer.

 

[QFIT]

The check is in the mail

Thanks to all for the votes of confidence!!! For everyone who voted for me I want to extend a very special invitation to combine BRs - a joint bankroll, and I will be the team treasurer - its not just a can't miss opportunity - its an adventure that I offer you all! zg

Zengrifter Teaches "TRUTH"

I'm sending my entire $5 bankroll

 

[bj bob]

Wow that is really funny!

That's cool, you can be the team treasurer, and I will be the team enforcer.

No way, Monk! You were born to be the "Gorilla Bettor".

 

[sagefr0g]

I'm sending my entire $5 bankroll

i think you gotta send the check to Nigeria first to be processed.

 

[zengrifter]

i think you gotta send the check to Nigeria first to be processed.

The funny thing is - the latest 409 scams, you don't send the money to Nigeria, they send the money to you in good faith first - counterfiet cashier check that is. Then after the bank clears it you send some of it on to London or elswhere. zg

 

[zengrifter]

I'm happy with second place against two awesome pros...
BUT the voting is still open. zg

 

[jack.jackson]

I'm happy with second place against two awesome pros...
BUT the voting is still open. zg

Your now tied for first. I think you could take ken:grin:

 

[Mimosine]

I'm happy with second place against two awesome pros...
BUT the voting is still open. zg

i only opened this thread to see who dug it up. i should have known better. i was expecting some new member asking, what is this all about?

i don't think i've voted yet. i'm still waiting to see how much Ken is going to charge for a seminar. then i'll decide.