Kim Lee VS Flash

[sagefr0g]

If a newbee or wannabee reads every post made by Kim Lee in that thread they will come away with much to think about concerning the real truth about BJ play, posters, misleading claims, and unwarranted expectations, as well as the psychology of enabling. On those subjects touched by Kim he is brilliant,,,as I am sure he is in AP play.

The alarming part to me has nothing to do with Flash, but how he, Kim, has been savaged by a group of posters for simply telling the truth. On all matters not involving Flash I stand with Kim Lee. (However, he did prove his point about Flash).

CP

with you once again CP, that's just the impression i came away with from my less than complete read.
what ever it's interesting to note Flash's post:
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showpost.php?p=182549&postcount=6
about risk averse stuff.
and the thing about that consideration is to me, the question of where do you draw the line, sort of thing.
errhh at what point does being risk averse do more damage than good and how much can being risk averse really help anyway.:whip:
what ever i like this stuff cause it at least opens up the idea that an AP can make some decisions, take some thought while maybe not turning over the whole apple cart sort of thing.

 

[FLASH1296]

Anyone concluding that Kim Lee proved his point has not read my recent responses on the Free Pages of bj21.com.

Anyone reading said responses will see that this "flame war" is nothing more than a smear campaign based upon a syntactic error.

Furthermore, what I posted in:

(Dead link: http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/show...49&postcount=6)

is fully supported by (none other than) the peerless redoubtable James Grosjean.

Perhaps you have concluded that he too is a poseur; but I doubt that. :laugh:

 

[johndoe]

(Dead link: http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/show...49&postcount=6)

Can you fix the link? I'm curious.

Kim really has quite the smear campaign going on for whoever doesn't agree with him. First you, now kewljason. What an ass.

 

[kewljason]

Can you fix the link? I'm curious.

Kim really has quite the smear campaign going on for whoever doesn't agree with him. First you, now kewljason. What an ass.

I wasn't aware of Mr. Kim smearing me, but it wouldn't matter to me, my game or career in the least anyway. It is totally irrelevent what anyone thinks of me. My position on the on the Kim 'Flash' post was that he was throwing out accusations without offering any proof of what he was saying. Once he provided the link, I acknowledged that Flash's comment's appeared to be inconsistant. I just still didn't see how these personal attacks help anyone in the community or improve anyone's game, which is the purpose of my visits to the boards.

The other post that Mr Kim took offense at was his 'Green Chip play for fun vs profit' post where he states that people who play for profit need a BR of only 7 grand to spread 1-8 green and 30 grand to spread 1-8 black. My position was that betting full kelly may be ok for players playing parttime with an easily replenishable BR, but that people that make a living playing blackjack, with this being the only source of income, such as myself, would never bet at those levels with those bankrolls. This would be suicidal. These levels are full kelly and most players playing for a living play a fraction of kelly. And usually it is a small fraction. When I say play for a living, I mean, this is your only source of income. No social security, no pension, no disablity payments, no parttime job. For people like us, the Bankroll is sacred. It must be protected at all costs. If you lose your BR, you are out of business. No taking a break for a month while you build a new BR from other sources. There are no other sources. So you play conservative. Even ultra conservative. Concerning yourself more with minimal RoR rather than optimal BR growth. I stand by that position.

I am more than willing to have discussions with members both here and BJ21 with whom I disagree. Discusions that are benificial to myself and/or others, but I no longer will participate in junior high school name calling becasue someone has a different opinion or view. It's just not conducive to my purpose here of improving my game and knowledge. I regret that my relationship with some members, that I have learned a great deal from, has deteriorated to the point that we can no longer have a discussion concerning blackjack.

 

[johndoe]

I had assumed that one of his other posts was referring to you specifically when he was criticizing those who claim to be professional betting green, or something. I don't really feel like digging into it to find the exact line.

But you're right, disagreements are perfectly fine, but it seems to me like this guy just has a campaign to bash, nitpick, and smear as much as possible - thus the argument spilling over to the bj21 free pages, and now here. It's really little more than throwing a fit, and it's really unnecessary, and a waste of our energy and attention. He could have easily disagreed, or asked for clarification without having a tantrum about it.

There have been far too many extremely capable, knowledgeable, and helpful people driven from this board for similar reasons already, and it's a real shame.

In BJ terms, this is hurting all of our EV...

 

[sagefr0g]

Can you fix the link? I'm curious.

....

i think it's this link john:
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showpost.php?p=182549&postcount=6

errhh by the way Flash if you read this i wasn't disagreeing with the content about the risk averse stuff.

 

[creeping panther]

Kim Lee

Anyone who thinks Kim Lee is anything but a highly skilled and extremely knowlegable AP player, author, and brilliant math wizard, are showing their own ignorance.

One must accept that those greats like Kim, Maz, Bojack ,JG, and many others may have a posting style that reflects the power of their unique and combative personality's,,, personality's that have led them to outstanding success in their chosen fields. No Pu##@ :cat: makes it in this business!

When I see posters on these sites with very limited experience and skillz, who play poor games and actually think they are good, who tetter on the edge of an all out gambling addiction,,, insult these proven BJ Greats, I want to hang my head in disgust.

Again this has nothing to do with Flash,,,but just those very weak "herd mentality posters" that finds it so easy to gang up on and beat upon a poster that makes a very valid point and proves it.

CP

 

[QFIT]

Anyone who thinks Kim Lee is anything but a highly skilled and extremely knowlegable AP player, author, and brilliant math wizard, are showing their own ignorance.

One must accept that those greats like Kim, Maz, Bojack ,JG, and many others may have a posting style that reflects the power of their unique and combative personality's,,, personality's that have led them to outstanding success in their chosen fields. No Pu##@ :cat: makes it in this business!

When I see posters on these sites with very limited experience and skillz, who play poor games and actually think they are good, who tetter on the edge of an all out gambling addiction,,, insult these proven BJ Greats, I want to hang my head in disgust.

Again this has nothing to do with Flash,,,but just those very weak "herd mentality posters" that finds it so easy to gang up on and beat upon a poster that makes a very valid point and proves it.

CP

I have known "Kim" for many years. Have you? Snyder and Schlesinger named us as "Masters of Blackjack" at the same time. (A ridiculous title I never liked and do not have anywhere in any of my websites, software or book.) Why make these assumptions?

Seriously guys, These "I'm better than you are" arguments are a waste of time and blood pressure. I have found a few errors in Flash's posts, but overall believe his posts to be useful. I'm sure I have made errors as well. Kim hasn't posted anything but attacks for years. That doesn't mean his posts are useless either.

Anyone want to talk about Blackjack, instead of personalities or three-year separated possible contradictions?

 

[creeping panther]

Q

I have known "Kim" for many years. Have you? Snyder and Schlesinger named us as "Masters of Blackjack" at the same time. (A ridiculous title I never liked and do not have anywhere in any of my websites, software or book.) Why make these assumptions?

Seriously guys, These "I'm better than you are" arguments are a waste of time and blood pressure. I have found a few errors in Flash's posts, but overall believe his posts to be useful. I'm sure I have made errors as well. Kim hasn't posted anything but attacks for years. That doesn't mean his posts are useless either.

Anyone want to talk about Blackjack, instead of personalities or three-year separated possible contradictions?

Q,

Yes I have and his posts are of great value as shown just by his recent posts as are the books he has participated in.

No one is talking about "better than you", just contradictions.

Did you enjoy it when you were being savaged by a group of posters???

You may not remember but I also sided with you at that time when it was not so popular to do so.

How soon some forget!

CP

 

[QFIT]

Well, that was my point.

Actually, Kim once attacked me in the same manner. After several attack posts, he stopped and privately e-mailed me that I was one of the good guys. BUT, he never publicly withdrew the attacks he knew had no basis in fact.

 

[Blue Efficacy]

Anyone who thinks Kim Lee is anything but a highly skilled and extremely knowlegable AP player, author, and brilliant math wizard, are showing their own ignorance.

One must accept that those greats like Kim, Maz, Bojack ,JG, and many others may have a posting style that reflects the power of their unique and combative personality's,,, personality's that have led them to outstanding success in their chosen fields. No Pu##@ :cat: makes it in this business!

When I see posters on these sites with very limited experience and skillz, who play poor games and actually think they are good, who tetter on the edge of an all out gambling addiction,,, insult these proven BJ Greats, I want to hang my head in disgust.

Again this has nothing to do with Flash,,,but just those very weak "herd mentality posters" that finds it so easy to gang up on and beat upon a poster that makes a very valid point and proves it.

CP

Being able to make money at a card game does not mean you are entitled to be a disrespectful ass to other members of the forum.

This comment is directed mainly at Maz, but can be applied to others to a lesser degree. They deserve to be insulted if they start it with their condescending attitude.

 

[Albee]

Negative EV

Reading this crap has been a huge waste of my time. It has not even been entertaining. Why people think they have the authority or the right to bash or question someone else's posts or abilities is beyond me.

I would value both individuals posts and views, however I have not seen much from Kim Lee that I would consider valuable.

This nonsense should stop and people should realize that we are here to learn and share experience we have and how to succeed at winning $$$ at BJ.

 

[creeping panther]

Albee

Reading this crap has been a huge waste of my time. It has not even been entertaining. Why people think they have the authority or the right to bash or question someone else's posts or abilities is beyond me.

I would value both individuals posts and views, however I have not seen much from Kim Lee that I would consider valuable.

This nonsense should stop and people should realize that we are here to learn and share experience we have and how to succeed at winning $$$ at BJ.

Hang on there!

That is what Kim is all about,,check it out.

Those posts he recently made have extreme value to the BJ AP, extreme value.

CP

 

[creeping panther]

Blue

Being able to make money at a card game does not mean you are entitled to be a disrespectful ass to other members of the forum.

This comment is directed mainly at Maz, but can be applied to others to a lesser degree. They deserve to be insulted if they start it with their condescending attitude.

These guys have earned that right,,,,just be glad they are posting here and learn to deal with the power of their personality.

CP

 

[Blue Efficacy]

These guys have earned that right,,,,just be glad they are posting here and learn to deal with the power of their personality.

CP

I have learned nothing by Maz' posts. Why should I be glad that he is here to belittle people?

 

[shadroch]

These guys have earned that right,,,,just be glad they are posting here and learn to deal with the power of their personality.

CP

Earned what right? What must one accomplish in order for it to be okay to be an ass?

 

[KimLee]

Reading this crap has been a huge waste of my time. ...
I have not seen much from Kim Lee that I would consider valuable.

Don't complain about wasting time on Page 4 of a thread!

Read my Free Page "Topless Lesbian Pool Party" or Green Chip Post-of-the-Month. See my optimal departure analysis in Blackjack Attack. For poker read Kill Phil or Kill Everyone. For sports I can provide my peer-reviewed analysis of point spreads. For investing you can start with New York Times review of my research.

If you can understand all this, yours is the Casino and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!

 

[zengrifter]

For investing you can start with New York Times review of my research.

Link please! And for the lesbian Pool Party!

If you can understand all this, yours is the Casino and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!

Mr. Lee, you obviously can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you... BUT can you make a heap of all your winnings and risk it on one turn of pitch and toss, and lose and start again at your beginnings and never breathe a word about your loss? zg

 

[creeping panther]

Shad

Earned what right? What must one accomplish in order for it to be okay to be an ass?

I think you are an ass but I still like you and value what you say, you have earned that right, imho.:laugh:

CP

 

[RJT]

I have learned nothing by Maz' posts. Why should I be glad that he is here to belittle people?

And because you're too much of a delicate nancy boy to handle someone who calls you and your ilk a few nasty names, the rest of us have to do without input that was backed with greater knowledge and real world experience than 99% of the posters on this site added together.
This board has sucessfully managed to chase away 2 of the most experienced and knowledgable players to ever have played the game within a year. What's worse is that several of the posters who've gotten themselves most uptight about these players post's now seem to think they've done everyone a service. Let me clear this up - you've ruined a vast resource that was freely available to the community simply because your ego couldn't take getting slapped around a bit.
And while you're too blinkered to have taken anything from your conversations with Maz, many of us gleened valuable information that could not be found in any book or online resource during the many hours that he freely gave conversing with other board members in the chat room.

RJT.