Last box: Different Strategy?

[JimmyFortune]

When playing on European tables (six decks, DAS, Dealer stands all 17s, No hole card, double on 9,10,11, no surrender), in the Netherlands, I always play according to the blackjack strategy. However, I've wondered whether or not there's a different strategy for playing the last box on the table.
I myself don't think so, but there seem to be a lot of people in dutch casinos, who do believe this to be true (even the dealers themselves...).

 

[Mikeaber]

More Voodoo Blackjack

When playing on European tables (six decks, DAS, Dealer stands all 17s, No hole card, double on 9,10,11, no surrender), in the Netherlands, I always play according to the blackjack strategy. However, I've wondered whether or not there's a different strategy for playing the last box on the table.
I myself don't think so, but there seem to be a lot of people in dutch casinos, who do believe this to be true (even the dealers themselves...).

Jimmy,

If I understand what you are asking (terminology is a bit different where you are located than it is here) then you are describing the position at the table immediately preceeding the dealer....the last person to play before the dealer makes his play. We call that "Third Base"...a baseball term, here in the USA.

We too have what seems to be a majority of players who deep down inside, believe that Third Base controls the table and can, by their play, change the outcome of the dealer's draw.

There is no difference in the strategy for playing "third base" or "last box" than for any other position at the table. I continue to be surprised at the amount of animosity that position draws from the other players at the table when the person in that position takes a hit and gets a high card and the dealer then draws a low card and makes a hand instead of busting.

Unless that third-baseman can somehow KNOW what the next card is going to be, then there is no way for him to have any reason to deviate from the basic strategy in playing that position any more so than were he playing in any other position at the table.

However, with all of the above declaration proclaimed: When I find myself playing "last box," I have found it extremely beneficial to turn my baseball cap around backwards and put my watch on my wright wrist. If it is going terribly bad, I will take the ring off my right ring finger and put it on my left. Sometimes, turning my chair around backwards helps.

 

[JimmyFortune]

Hi Mike,
thanks for your answer. That's exactly what I wanted to know.
I actually don't mind playing "third base".. after a while you get used to the other players giving you angry looks and I really don't mind, knowing that I played according to strategy.
And on a more happy note: because there is no hole card on European tables, playing third base actually enables you to prevent the bank drawing a blackjack.
I can remember a very happy table when the following situation occured:

Dealer's upcard: Ace
My first two cards: Ace, eight.
I took a hit, and got a ten. Stood on hard nineteen, the dealer drew a two, and two tens. Third base saved the day..!

 

[KenSmith]

If you think we have it tough in the US defending our plays at third base, it's even worse with European No Hole Card rules since you actually are changing which card the dealer gets as a second card. Because of that, even more misinformed players think that the player at third base has some mystical power to "save the table", or to sink it. Of course, it's still bunk, just like it is with the US hole card rule.

The unfortunate truth is that those players will tend to forget examples like Jimmy Fortune's last one, and instead choose to remember when the dealer got the blackjack because of something they disagreed with at third base.

You just need thick skin to play third base, anywhere in the world.

 

[cyclinggimpe]

Hi Mike,
thanks for your answer. That's exactly what I wanted to know.
I actually don't mind playing "third base".. after a while you get used to the other players giving you angry looks and I really don't mind, knowing that I played according to strategy.
And on a more happy note: because there is no hole card on European tables, playing third base actually enables you to prevent the bank drawing a blackjack.
I can remember a very happy table when the following situation occured:

Dealer's upcard: Ace
My first two cards: Ace, eight.
I took a hit, and got a ten. Stood on hard nineteen, the dealer drew a two, and two tens. Third base saved the day..!

This doesn't always happen when I'm at the tables. I guess where I play in Canada, the rules are similar to European rules. The dealer only shows his upcard and then he draws his last cards when everyone else finishes.

I have seen 3rd base draw when he shouldn't have and save the day. And I've also seen 3rd base stand when he shouldn't have and save the day.

If only we could see what the next card would be, eh?

I usually ingnore the bad looks. Or, if someone scowls at 3rd base I just jokingly say that too bad we don't know what the dealers next card will be ahead of time. Usually most others start joking about it. And the ones that don't; I figure they're just some moronic loser. Or they have a very serious gambling problem causing some financial difficulties.

 

[johntks]

Jimmy,
You have a right to be happy because you are a very lucky man.
Unfortunately the opposite thing happen to me. I once found myself in the
third base position, my least like playing position. We also play the ENHC rules
here in Asia and the table was full at the time.
I was dealt an Ace,7 and the dealer has a picture card. When I
motion for a hit the women next to me ask me "You have 18 already, why do
you want another card?" How do you explain to her that this is the right play
without holding up the play at the table.
Well, as luck would have it, I got a 5 card followed by a picture card
and busted. The dealer then drew a picture card and collected the bets from
all the other players. The next thing I knew all the other players left the table
and I was left playing by myself with the dealer. I was not very popular around the blackjack tables for the rest of the cruise on the cruise ship.
Well, the hazard of playing third base. Never Again.

 

[JimmyFortune]

I'm not so happy as you think I am John, as this example was ofcourse an incident. They when you save them, but in all other cases. I just don't give a damn about these players. In fact it gives me a feeling of superiority (I know this may be dangerous).
However, when playing third base, the dealer has asked me several times : "may I advise you?" (sure, tell me your lies), "you'd better stand on 16, when I have a 10 or so, because you can only have a (relatively) good spot with A,2,3,4,5. Assuming that one of these cards will be next (Ace excluded, but that's not what they will tell you), it's better to stand, BECAUSE this will be a bad spot for me!" (thus dealer having 12, 13, 14, 15 or 16 and then busts). This explanation makes me really angry and I think it almost suggests that I have more chance to win than the dealer. The first time it occurred I didn't pay much attention, but in my most recent visit to the casino, when they were telling me the same story again, I almost couldn't stay focused on the cards (I can play automatically, but I want to be very concentrated), as I got a small adrenalin rush. I didn't respond to the dealer, but after coming home, some questions popped up. How should I respond to this behaviour, should I blow the dealer away by saying he or she is lying and explain how it works or should I ask for the manager and discuss it with him. You might think, why is this guy so upset, but I really think this shouldn't be tolerated; without blinking the dealer draws a card for a player who has 15 and asks for it, dealer having a 3 (unfortunately the player got a 4, so next time he'll do the same) and they try to persuade you that passing on 16 while in third base is a good thing to do. This doesn't seem fair, especially considering here in the Netherlands all casino's are state-run... Does this behaviour also occur in your casino(s) and how do you respond?

 

[BlackDog]

Hey JimmyFortune,

Maybe you had this guy dealing to you.

http://journals.aol.com/opheliapo/BlackjackEtiquetteandotherrantso (Archive copy)

I often wondered how dealers felt about the players...I certainly hope this guy is the exception and not the rule. He is way overdue for a job change

 

[matteotm]

haha.. reading those entries just makes me wonder.. what the dealers are thinking during the game about the players. i probably wouldnt blame them half the time if they were thinking bad things. LOL. but i think that person should relise those gamblers pay her wages so if she dosent like it as she says the "i have to deal you can LEAVE" . well id say to her.. she dosent have to deal she can find a new job, and by the sounds of it, she really should with an attitude like that.