Legal documentation?

[aslan]

I wouldn't deal with anyone either unless I felt a simple handshake was sufficient. I WOULD however put the terms in writing so both me and the other party are clear on everything, and in case somebody doesn't remember or isn't clear on the terms in the future. If I felt the need to make the document be able to stand up in court, I would just not do the deal.

What you are saying is perfectly logical. I have had "gambling" deals with others before, and sometimes they are honored and sometimes the other party tries to weasel out with some pretext or interpretation. The long and the short of it is, I have never had a problem with other honorable men, but sometimes I have unwittingly entered into deals with liars and thieves and I was either lucky, or they did not honor their commitments. Rather than come up with a written document for these casual agreements, I just make greater efforts to vet those I am dealing with.

 

[Sucker]

How could he refuse to pay you your share of the win? Presumably you had possession of the money, in which case you don't give him any of it.

He was not only an investor, he was the BP; which means he had possession of the money at all times. I sat at 3rd base betting minimum bets, he was playing 3 hands of the table max. I would signal him how much to bet and how to play his hands. This is a very common arrangement in this business and it's the only time someone has ever tried something like this on me. As is often the case, he ended up only screwing himself in the long run. The person I found to replace him ended up winning more than seven figures before he finally got burned out (we finally ran out of casinos that would let him play).

 

[pit15]

He was not only an investor, he was the BP; which means he had possession of the money at all times. I sat at 3rd base betting minimum bets, he was playing 3 hands of the table max. I would signal him how much to bet and how to play his hands. This is a very common arrangement in this business and it's the only time someone has ever tried something like this on me. As is often the case, he ended up only screwing himself in the long run. The person I found to replace him ended up winning more than seven figures before he finally got burned out (we finally ran out of casinos that would let him play).

Ah, ok, well that makes sense.

I'm surprised that other person isn't still playing with you after winning that much. A legal name change, some different glasses (or wearing glasses with a blank prescription), and new clothes can go a long way, and for that kind of money is well worth the hassle.

 

[pit15]

What you are saying is perfectly logical. I have had "gambling" deals with others before, and sometimes they are honored and sometimes the other party tries to weasel out with some pretext or interpretation. The long and the short of it is, I have never had a problem with other honorable men, but sometimes I have unwittingly entered into deals with liars and thieves and I was either lucky, or they did not honor their commitments. Rather than come up with a written document for these casual agreements, I just make greater efforts to vet those I am dealing with.

I'm talking about a written agreement that's more like an outline of the terms, nothing official

Like for example it could be as simple as this:

You will invest $100000, we will play for 250 hours, I will receive 25% of the first 50000 win, and 15% of any win after that.

Especially if your agreement has any kind of tiers for profit sharing, a verbal agreement can easily become difficult to remember the exact terms of 6 months down the line.

If I need to spell anything out further then that example, I don't want to deal with them, period.

 

[NightStalker]

seven figures

He was not only an investor, he was the BP; which means he had possession of the money at all times. I sat at 3rd base betting minimum bets, he was playing 3 hands of the table max. I would signal him how much to bet and how to play his hands. This is a very common arrangement in this business and it's the only time someone has ever tried something like this on me. As is often the case, he ended up only screwing himself in the long run. The person I found to replace him ended up winning more than seven figures before he finally got burned out (we finally ran out of casinos that would let him play).

is more than my current bankroll.. Use me as BP

 

[aslan]

I'm talking about a written agreement that's more like an outline of the terms, nothing official

Like for example it could be as simple as this:

You will invest $100000, we will play for 250 hours, I will receive 25% of the first 50000 win, and 15% of any win after that.

Especially if your agreement has any kind of tiers for profit sharing, a verbal agreement can easily become difficult to remember the exact terms of 6 months down the line.

If I need to spell anything out further then that example, I don't want to deal with them, period.

If I were making a long-term agreement, I suppose I would put it in writing as well. I was only talking about very short term agreements, oftentimes only one-nighters.

 

[flyingwind]

If I were making a long-term agreement, I suppose I would put it in writing as well. I was only talking about very short term agreements, oftentimes only one-nighters.

I love one-nighters.

At the casino, I mean.

 

[southAP]

There's a ton of ways to get out of a contract, and if it's not professionally written, it will almost certainly not stand up in court.

Any documentation signed by two parties is considered a legal contract. To make a loose contract hold up in court, thats when you would need a good lawyer.

 

[aslan]

Any documentation signed by two parties is considered a legal contract. To make a loose contract hold up in court, thats when you would need a good lawyer.

Are you saying that any unwritten agreement by two parties is not a legal contract? An oral contract that is clear is better than a written contract that is unclear.

To be sure a contract will hold up in court, your need a lawyer or be trained in legal writing yourself. Why do you think lawyers go to such pains to include what appears to us laymen as unnecessary language? The "odd" phrasings lawyers use are based on thousands of past cases.

 

[southAP]

I was saying that anything written agreement signed by 2 or more parties IS an agreement. At least thats what my friend who recently graduated law school tells me.

What I was trying to say about having a lawyer is that, if it is a loose written contract that the lawyer would need to be present in court to find ways to validate or oppose whatever is being contested in court.

Are you saying that any unwritten agreement by two parties is not a legal contract? An oral contract that is clear is better than a written contract that is unclear.

To be sure a contract will hold up in court, your need a lawyer or be trained in legal writing yourself. Why do you think lawyers go to such pains to include what appears to us laymen as unnecessary language? The "odd" phrasings lawyers use are based on thousands of past cases.

 

[aslan]

I was saying that anything written agreement signed by 2 or more parties IS an agreement. At least thats what my friend who recently graduated law school tells me.

What I was trying to say about having a lawyer is that, if it is a loose written contract that the lawyer would need to be present in court to find ways to validate or oppose whatever is being contested in court.

Agree.