Marker Delay

[aslan]

I was playing at a NME table when this fellow gets in requesting a marker. The marker was for several thousand dollars and it took quite a while from the time he requested it to the time they gave him the chips. Finally we got started and he bets large and loses everything in a few hands (we're playing 6-deck). So the fellow requests another marker, and right in the middle of the shoe the house stops everything to give this person another marker for several thousand more. This took what seemed like a phenomenal amount of time. So now reloaded the fellow bets really big and in a few hands he is $8,000 up overall, whereupon he quits well before half the cards have been dealt.

My question is, "Is this the normal procedure for houses to handle markers?" The pit seemed to know this individual very well and seemed to bend over backwards to give him his markers disregarding entirely the fact that this caused two significant delays in the game. Up until now I had never experienced such delays due to markers.

 

[NAP]

I don't have any experience with the markers but I do have a very relevant question that was the only thing I thought of while reading your post...

WHAT WAS THE COUNT? :laugh:

 

[Sucker]

Yes; this is the ONLY way they will treat a credit player. It is considered to be a real big no-no; almost to the point of unethical, for a casino to deal AROUND a losing player, no matter HOW much of a delay it causes. Many credit players ARE courteous enough to instruct the dealer to "Go ahead & deal around me", but lacking this, they will ALWAYS wait for the player.

This also holds true for a cash player. If you run out of chips in the middle of a shoe, ESPECIALLY a NMSE game; the dealer is supposed to ALWAYS give you a chance to rebuy. I have NEVER seen a dealer deal around a credit player in this circumstance, and have only a couple of times seen them deal around a CASH player. BOTH times that this happened; the dealer received a VERY strong tongue lashing from the pit boss.

 

[aslan]

I don't have any experience with the markers but I do have a very relevant question that was the only thing I thought of while reading your post...

WHAT WAS THE COUNT? :laugh:

Well, of course, the first marker was before the deal. But the second marker came as the count rose almost exponentially, with the "marker man" betting high and leading me to believe the marker man was a card counter. I followed right along betting as if in imitation of the guy, but the count actually warranted it. The count rose so quickly from the get go that I questioned myself and whether I had somehow hallucinated or jumped the count unaccountably by twenty or more. But with the count sky high, the marker guy suddenly up and left, and no counter would have done that in my estimation. Meanwhile, I was losing more than I was winning with max bet out, while the marker guy hit a few good ones with large money out and made a quick profit. I don't recall all the details after the fellow left, only that it was a losing shoe for me. Unbelievably, the high plus count came well before half the cards were dealt, yet it seemed like a lot of junk was coming out and not the expected disproportion of tens. It was so bizarre I questioned myself over and over whether this could have been some kind of fixed event, but I don't see how it could have been. The cards were hand shuffled and the big player marker guy did not take full advantage of the high count by sticking around until it was over. The thing that bothered me the most was the quick in and out behavior of the large bettor coupled with the most ballistic run to a high count I had ever seen. I concluded it was all coincidental because I could not see any other plausible explanation.

 

[aslan]

This was the closest thing to the twilight zone I had ever experienced except for one occasion where I lost my first $5,000 at a $15 table in the worst landslide of losing hands I had ever seen. I suppose the reason so much junk was being dealt also explains how the count mounted so quickly. Had the expected high cards fallen, the count would have been much lower. As I recall, the high cards never did come out in full force. The cards behind the cut card must have been largely high cards. Has anyone ever seen this before? There were probably clues as to what was happening but my card counting skills are not advanced. Maybe someone like Tarzan with his level five count would have understood what was happening, but I was totally mystified.

 

[joeblackjack]

I was playing at a NME table when this fellow gets in requesting a marker. The marker was for several thousand dollars and it took quite a while from the time he requested it to the time they gave him the chips. Finally we got started and he bets large and loses everything in a few hands (we're playing 6-deck). So the fellow requests another marker, and right in the middle of the shoe the house stops everything to give this person another marker for several thousand more. This took what seemed like a phenomenal amount of time. So now reloaded the fellow bets really big and in a few hands he is $8,000 up overall, whereupon he quits well before half the cards have been dealt.

My question is, "Is this the normal procedure for houses to handle markers?" The pit seemed to know this individual very well and seemed to bend over backwards to give him his markers disregarding entirely the fact that this caused two significant delays in the game. Up until now I had never experienced such delays due to markers.

Were they waiting until the marker was printed and signed? Normally, when a player first asks for a marker, it may take a minute for the pit to look up their available credit. But after that, they know how much is available, and they'll mark it up immediately with plastic markers reflecting the amount placed on the table by the drop box, give the chips, and then bring the marker to sign whenever it's ready. That's usually a few minutes after the player actually has the chips. Then they take the plastic markers away after the actual paper marker is signed and dropped.

 

[aslan]

Were they waiting until the marker was printed and signed? Normally, when a player first asks for a marker, it may take a minute for the pit to look up their available credit. But after that, they know how much is available, and they'll mark it up immediately with plastic markers reflecting the amount placed on the table by the drop box, give the chips, and then bring the marker to sign whenever it's ready. That's usually a few minutes after the player actually has the chips. Then they take the plastic markers away after the actual paper marker is signed and dropped.

He did sign something both times and I believe they waited until he had signed both times before they gave him chips. They seemed to already know him, but it still took a long time. The second time was in the middle of my betting max bet, so it may have seemed longer than it actually was. The first time, unless my memory is flawed, was more than ten minutes. Can you imagine waiting ten minutes for someone just to get on with the deal. The only reason no one left I guess was because no one believed it would take so long. And that was pretty much after the shuffle had taken place. Altogether he took out somewhere between 10 and 15 thousand as I recall.

PS--edit.. Yes, I think the marker came from somewhere else. Where it was prepared, I do not know. It just seemed to take an eternity.

 

[creeping panther]

Aslan

It is a fallacy to believe a big player, such as this gent, would not leave at a high count with being up $8000 that quick, if indeed he had Skillz there are reasons, and good ones, for this behavior.

CP

 

[aslan]

It is a fallacy to believe a big player, such as this gent, would not leave at a high count with being up $8000 that quick, if indeed he had Skillz there are reasons, and good ones, for this behavior.

CP

He described himself to me as a "degenerate gambler." He seemed very smart, but he had no way to know the shoe would begin going North nonstop from the start, and his bets never escalated, they were large right from the start. I could not detect any "counting behavior." The shoe was so bizarre, you'd think it was a cooler, which was not possible. And who would want to play a shoe with a disproportionate number of tens behind the cut card? So that pretty much left out some kind of shuffle tracking from behind the table before he got in. Frankly, I was baffled. He may have been just what he represented himself to be-- a degenerate gambler.

 

[NAP]

It's not too often you see degenerate gamblers describe themselves as degenerate gamblers, especially as they gamble.

 

[jaygruden]

Has anyone ever seen this before?

Yes...In the first 4-6 weeks of when I started counting. 8D game, PA rules, 6.5/8 Pen. Count skyrockets early and keeps climbing. Top 3 highest counts I ever experienced. I had max bet out there 15-20x and lost my @ss. I lost about 70% of max bets and most dbls/splits. Big cards never showed like they should have. I Questioned if I somehow screwed up the count. Concluded that the only explanation was the 1.5 decks behind the cut card was the richest slug ever and I never got to see it. ASM prevented me from seeing it on the next shoe as well.

 

[aslan]

It's not too often you see degenerate gamblers describe themselves as degenerate gamblers, especially as they gamble.

My thought exactly. When he said this to me, I figured right away, he was an AP of some sort, but if he was, I still have not figured out what sort. It crossed my mind, too, that he was just a very wealthy individual who just liked to take a short shot from time to time figuring he had about an even chance to win in the short run. He definitely had no intention of playing long. Once ahead $8,000, he was gone!

 

[Bacchante]

I've had that in a 6D shoe too- the count skyrockets right from the get-go and stays there, yet it seems all I do is lose, lose, lose. (Did I hallucinate that high count???) I would've loved to have seen the 1 1/2 deck after the cut card; it had to be very rich in good cards. I just put it down to an ugly variance run :-(

 

[NAP]

I've had that in a 6D shoe too- the count skyrockets right from the get-go and stays there, yet it seems all I do is lose, lose, lose. (Did I hallucinate that high count???) I would've loved to have seen the 1 1/2 deck after the cut card; it had to be very rich in good cards. I just put it down to an ugly variance run :-(

My last 2 months in a nutshell! :laugh:

 

[aslan]

My last 2 months in a nutshell! :laugh:

It just dawned on me-- duh! NAP = Not A Ploppy

:laugh:

 

[blackchipjim]

Aslan, was there anyone at the table other than youself and him? Did you sit down with other players there already? Think about it for awhile.

 

[NAP]

It just dawned on me-- duh! NAP = Not A Ploppy

:laugh:

The avatar was one of the first things Google Images provided when I searched for 'Ploppie'. I thought it was hilarious so I threw a big 'X' over it and now here we are. :1st:

 

[Daggers]

i would have loved to see that situation. the odds of that happening....

 

[aslan]

Aslan, was there anyone at the table other than youself and him? Did you sit down with other players there already? Think about it for awhile.

There were at least 5 players at the table, maybe 6.

It took so long to get started that it probably filled up.

 

[aslan]

The avatar was one of the first things Google Images provided when I searched for 'Ploppie'. I thought it was hilarious so I threw a big 'X' over it and now here we are. :1st:

It's been staring me in the face for so long and then it dawned on me:1st: