kewljason said:
It seems to me, the advanced mathematics angle has really been pushed on this site lately. Maybe it is my lack of a mathematics degree and/or background that prevents me from not appreciating this angle as much as others.
Someone visiting this site for the first time and reading through some of these threads, will conclude that to succeed in card counting today, you must play an advanced level 2, 3 or higher count, with multiple side counts, and hundreds of strategy change indices for both the primary count and side counts and that is just not so. I actually believe that in today's game the mathematics is less important than it used to be. 
The math guys want to run sims showing that a multiple level count will improve your results by .xx percent or two side counts will with hundreds of play variations is worth an additional .xx percent. Some of these guys, I think the majority of their blackjack experience takes place on their computer. They think Qfit's products or even their own programs are their blackjack career instead of a tool to aide in their actual play. :sad:
I am not disputing that these advanced card counting ideas don't improve performance. I do believe the value of this 'gain' is overstated, the error rate understated and that it just doesn't translate fully in actual play. I am questioning the value for the majority of players in the real world of play. In the real world there is so much education that must take place on the ground, rather than the computer screen that seems to be overlooked. Things that can result in far greater improvement to your results than higher level counts and side counts. Sniffing out and taking advantage of better games and opportunities. Learning what is and isn't tolerated at different places and tayloring your play to these guidelines and levels. Even learning these tolerance levels for different pit personnel and co-ordinating with their schedules. All these advanced math techniques don't mean squat if you aren't able to apply them anywhere but your computer.
So while, you guys can fight over the merits of such gains in threads that run 15+pages, I want to go on record to say to anyone reading these threads for the first time, or the umpteenth time, whatever your level and intent, from recreational player to supplementing your lifestyle/income, to full-time player, “you don't have to be Newton or Einstein to succeed. You can still do just fine learning the basics”.
I am afraid I have to disagree with you on this one KJ. All the Mathematical/theoretical/computational discussions have been and are always confined to the "theory and math" section. Moreover, if you actually "count" the number of "practical" questions about card counting or casino play, you will find that the latter wins easily. Besides all that and more importantly, the stickies and posts by site admin, mods and prominent board members stress out the fact that you do not need to be a mathematical genius to count cards, and advocate the use of simpler counting systems.
Since this is a sticky, i will reiterate the " accepted general wisdom" about card counting systems with a few touches of my own personal taste.
One needs to realize that "in general most counting systems" are good systems, but some systems are better for particular rules, number of decks, penetration etc.
There is no universal best counting system if you factor in all these including ease of use.
Let's discuss point by point the topics related to card counting theory.
Count Level
While in the 70's and 80's complicated Level 4 systems were popular, much simpler systems are used these days. Besides a few great individuals(raise?
) who use halves (a level 3) system, it is widely accepted that Level 3 and higher are not needed. While there is no disagreement on the latter point, the debate over choosing a level 1 system over a level 2 system is an ongoing topic. My personal opinion about the matter is that it really all depends on several factors. If you are playing as a team, than a level 1 system is much better mainly because it allows for better playing quality control. If you play solo and your sole advantage play is card counting, with enough practice and discipline you might be better or with the 10-15% extra gain in return. This is where a good simulator that also includes possible player errors come into work. You can run the simulator to see if the errors are reducing your return to a point that is not worth it for you to use a higher level count.
How many indexes?
If only i got a dollar every time this question was asked... The obvious answer "as many as you can" however that is only a partial answer, because again it all depends on your game strategy mostly your playing strategy. If you are backcounting the I18 and Fab4 are more than enough, if you are playing through positive and negative shoes, the more indexes you add the better off you are. In fact if you compare a play-all game for I18 and full indexes, you will get ~ +0.2% increase in ev.
Side counts
The general wisdom is to reserve side-counts to pitch games (unless you are side-counting for a bonus side game). Also unless you are playing very deeply dealt single deck games(time machine back to the 70s), there is really little gain in side-counting cards and using multi-parameter tables to increase playing efficiency. My personal opinion, if you only play pitch games (like fine 2D games) , Hi-Opt II with ace-side count for betting is a really strong combination. And it is very doable with enough practice.
