MGM, Others Abuse Patrons' Rights

zengrifter

Banned
MGM, Others Abuse Patrons' Rights

By Marcus K. Dalton
Las Vegas Tribune | August 5, 2005

In a recent open letter to the Review Journal, Las Vegas attorney Robert Nersesian writes -

"Nevada's casino industry continues to act as if it is above the law. Time and again, patrons legally playing ... suffer imprisonment and even beatings at the hands of casino security personnel. It's well past time that something be done to stop these incidents."

Abuse of casino patrons' rights in Southern Nevada is actually more widespread than is commonly acknowledged.

Consider the case of Richard Chen. On March 9, 2000, the Nevada Supreme Court ruled 3-1 that the Monte Carlo Casino had to give Richard Chen the $40,400 he won by counting cards at blackjack. From the objective view of the law, if there is such a thing, card counters are merely players who have enough skill to beat casinos at their own game. A close look at the Chen decision shows how precarious the legal rights of card counters actually are. Chen used a fictitious Burma passport (the country no longer exists) to obtain $44,000 in chips. By the time he had accumulated a total of $84,400, it was discovered that he was a known card counter. So, the Monte Carlo refused to pay. Chen, having won money legitimately nevertheless had to go to the State's highest court to collect.

Think that Chen's case is a remote or isolated occurrence in the Southern Nevada casinos, including those owned by the MGM consortium? Think again.

Last Month a player won $8,600 at blackjack at the MGM Grand but when he attempted to redeem his chips he was denied his winnings and even his initial buy-in. The player, who wishes to remain nameless, holds a Ph.D. from Stanford University and works at an 'ivy league' university on the east coast.

"After playing at the MGM Grand without being rated, and winning a large amount, the cage then refused to cash my chips, and gave me a receipt for them instead, on the grounds that because I was not known to them, having played without a comp rating, they have no record of my play. From what the shift manager said to me when he told me the decision, it is obvious that they know who I am, know I am an excellent blackjack player, and are acting on the premise that strong players are fair game for being cheated and harassed by their casino," said the Stanford Ph.D.

The Tribune spoke with gaming legal experts Al Rogers and Bob Nersesian, and both told us that they know of several other cases in which the MGM Grand did this to exceptionally strong blackjack players. In previous cases, after filing complaints with the Gaming Control Board, the victims eventually got their money, but the MGM Grand was not penalized in any way which obviously gives the MGM Grand no incentive to discontinue this abuse.

Several Las Vegas lawyers say there is an emerging pattern of intimidation and excessive force, with casino security, state gaming officers and the Metropolitan Police Department often working in concert to trample constitutional rights, civil liberties and gaming regulations to deter advantage gamblers from playing at local properties.

The problem has been emerging from the backrooms of casinos into wider public view through a bevy of legal cases in Las Vegas in which advantage gamblers have sued casino-hotels, Gaming Control Board agents, and even Metro officers after they have had their winnings confiscated or been detained and roughed up by security and police officers and even charged with unrelated minor offenses.

One who understands this is Las Vegas attorney Bob Nersesian, who represents several advantage players who charge that their civil rights have been violated in casinos in recent years.

In a November 2004 article entitled "Bringing Down The House, Las Vegas Mercury author Bob Shemeligian quotes Nersesian and reviews some of the attorney's cases against casino abuse: "The casino is at war with everybody - every single player," Nersesian says. "Every day, the casino wins the war against the average casino patron. They do this by winning from the patron. But when it comes to their war against advantage players, I would suggest the casino uses tactics not approved by the Geneva Convention."

And don't think that the smaller "local" establishments are immune to this obnoxious and illegal behavior. Recently the Tribune learned of allegations of several violations involving the Tuscany Hotel Casino on Flamingo Road.

Last month Mary Miller had checked into the Tuscany Hotel and then proceeded to the bar where she played video poker. According to Miller, she began to pile up winnings in the machine, "several hundred dollars, very lucky," she said. "As my winnings accumulated the security guard became increasingly interested and then finally told me I had to leave."

Miller claims she was not drunk or belligerent, but she was incredulous towards the Tuscany security guard, not understanding why she would be asked to leave when winning.

Ultimately, Miller was handcuffed and detained, her winnings were confiscated without a receipt, and then she was packed out and ejected from the property without even a refund of the hotel fare she had paid only two hours earlier. When her attorney requested a copy of the security report and the video surveillance, none was forthcoming.

The Tribune has learned that Miller's Tuscany experience is not uncommon to that property. According to Tribune sources several weeks ago a craps player who was ahead several thousand dollars had an almost identical experience to Miller's. Further Tribune has witnessed the existence, first hand, of illegal table-game sidebets being blatantly promoted at Tuscany.

In a July 22nd Tribune commentary, noted gaming expert L.V. Bear wrote: "What should be frightening and infuriating to Nevadans is that the outrageous activity by casinos is tolerated by the Nevada Gaming Control Board. If there was to be a vote for least effective public agency, the Gaming Control Board would win easily. It appears to be corrupt from top to bottom, operating as a de facto arm of the casino industry, instead of protecting the public from casino wrongdoing. The Gaming Control Board is little more than a training ground for future casino employees. The current Board is a see-no-evil, hear-no-evil trio of two undistinguished career bureaucrats and a casino-industry attorney who cater to every whim of the casino bosses, and do little or nothing to protect the public."

Publicized cases of casino cheating underscore an apparent mentality of the Nevada Gaming Control Board itself. When the Venetian was caught rigging promotional drawings for the benefit of certain Asian high-rollers, Gaming Control fined it a million dollars, which is a petty slap on the wrist for the Venetian. The crooked employees should have been referred to the District Attorney's Office for criminal prosecution. Not only was that not done, the Gaming Control didn't even see fit to revoke the gaming licenses of the perpetrators
.
In a more recent case, the Golden Nugget refused to pay $48,600 on a winning sports bet. The Golden Nugget said it simply would not pay the winner, though it would refund the $2700 bet. The Gaming Control Board ordered the Golden Nugget to pay the victim, but assessed an absurdly small monetary penalty of less than $30,000. Again, no casino employee was prosecuted for trying to cheat a patron, and the fine, actually imposed for failure to notify the Board of a "patron dispute," was so small as to be ridiculous. And, the outright attempt to cheat a patron of his winnings was labeled a "patron dispute."

L.V. Bear lays the blame thoroughly at the feet of Gaming Control, noting the case of a computerized tracking device that the Eldorado Casino was utilizing to illicitly improve their profits (i.e., cheat) at blackjack: "The Board had to be sued before it agreed to take action to stop [the Eldorado's] cheating at blackjack, through a computerized table that uses marked cards. Incredibly, the Board has permitted the continued use of the marked cards, but has made it less easy, though not impossible, for casinos to use the device to cheat patrons. The Board refuses to publicly disclose a copy of the anti-cheating orders it claims to have issued. Without the embarrassment of being sued for refusing to do its job, the Board would likely have continued to do nothing while the cheating went on unabated."

Unfortunately, Gaming Control has the ability to operate largely in secret. A few ill-conceived statutes allow it more secrecy than a regular police department. Most of its files are not considered public records, and are not available for public inspection. Most of its business is conducted via secret deals with casino bosses. Of course, the secret sweetheart-deal making works to the advantage of the Board, its employees and the casino bosses, and to the detriment of the public.

"The present Gaming Control Board is an out-of-control, corrupt government agency operating in virtual secrecy. Legislation is needed to force it to open its files and records to the sunshine of public scrutiny. If after public examination of its practices, it is determined to unsalvageable, it should be disbanded, its employees fired from the public payroll, and a new agency created," says Bear.

"Nevada does not need another cheating scandal or another abuse-of-patrons scandal in its casinos. There have been far too many already, with no meaningful action ever taken against the wrongdoers. Nevada is competing with many other gaming and vacation destinations. The other states take casino cheating and other wrongdoing seriously. Nevada needs to start doing the same, before it is too late. Once we get a national or worldwide reputation for not having legitimate, effective government oversight of casinos, many of the tourists -- the lifeblood of our economy -- will stop taking the risk of visiting Nevada," concludes Bear.
 

BradRod

Well-Known Member
Deja Vu for me

I had a similar experience happen to me at an MGM Grand recently cashing in $1000 chips they would not cash me out unless they saw my id. Then they verified my play with the pit person and I think they knew that I was an advantage player also. It seemed like they wanted to take a few other steps that may have resulted in me getting a kind of voucher but the cashier was new and I think by some mis-steps she made she frustrated the cashier manager and he seemed to be a little agitated about just having to give me the money.

I think that the next time I will squirrel away chips during play if I can so that I do not get stuck trying to cash out such large chips,.
 
Best Rules: Mandalay, Caesars, or Palms?

I will be visiting the fine city of Las Vegas after a one year absence. I am not an "advantage" player, but I do like to play at tables that have the smallest house edge. I know that the above three once had (and may stil) two deck games with surrender. Can anyone please tell me which of the three currently have the "best" 2-deck rules. Thanks.
 

VC

New Member
A different perspective

Dear Mr. Zen:

Thank you for all your posts, I feel I have learned alot from you through the years. For years I was a basic strategy player (I guess ploppy in the eyes of some) and in the last few years I have slowly mastered the art of counting cards using KO. I consider you and the Mayor as a key part in my transition to becoming an advantage player, though I have much work still to do. I would like to offer my perspective on the latest legal happenings where various casinos and Griffin are taking quite a beating.

The casinos response to legal judgements and bad press will be to go on the defensive. Shareholders of these large corporations (HET, etc.) will not tolerate casino goon squads causing huge jury verdicts and settlements. The casino reaction, in my opinion, will be to reduce blackjack to unplayable for the advantage player. If the fear of the bottom line is so great because of card counting then casinos will simply go into a siege warfare mentality. Decks will be shuffled at 50% or higher, all tables will go 6/5, and CSM's will be used as needed.

Maybe I am missing something, but these monster corporations like Harrah's and MGM will not allow themselves to be taken advantage of. If they can no longer be proactive with advantage players (backrooming, trespass laws, intimidation, etc.) then I believe they default to making BJ unplayable except for the ploppy and basic strategy player.

Maybe we are in midst of a civil rights movement for cardcounters but I see the end result of all of this litigation as being negative in the long run as casinos simply dig in and develop every possible counter measure to keep advantage players from even being able to sit down at the table.

Thanks.
 
Bad games

That is already happening to a certain extent which is why there are so many games with bad rules being dealt. Most average players don't know good games from bad games. What they (the players) will realize, later rater than sooner, is that they are losing at at alarmingly higher rate at the 21 tables than they were in the past. They will then stop playing and move to the poker rooms. This will eventually result in a lower drop at the BJ tables and the casinos will realize that something is causing their spreadsheet #s at the BJ tables to 'skew'. The unknowledgable casino managers will then attempt to increase drop by instituting poorer rules and ridiculous promotions, while the smart ones will return the games to a playable status. They will increase their drop by offering fair games that will collect the .5-1% from all players they should. Many casinos in LV have come to this realization. Some have done the opposite (Palms for ex.).
It is satisfying to walk into a casino and see the 6:5 tables empty. Casinos will soon realize that empty tables generate negative revenue. Better to offer good games and manage your tables full for a large percentage of the time.
 

BlackJackHack

Well-Known Member
Game Quality and Market Segment

There are two ways to protect a game: (1) hire PCs with brains who can tell an AP from a civilian and take reasonable countermeasures, or (2) make the rules/penetration so crappy that APs can't make any money at the game. There is a cost to both - hiring PCs with brains costs more than hiring the usual morons. The cost to offering crappy rules is that it will turn away some percentage of the clientele. The cost to offering poor penetration is fewer hands per hour, as well as turning away some percentage of the clientele (who are bored by the constant shuffling).

It is my observation that the casinos have taken a bifurcated approach to this problem, based on market segment.

In the bottom end of the market (i.e. red chip play), my perception is that the major casino companies believe it is more cost effective to offer crappy games than to hire personnel smart enough to police the games. They're probably right - red chip ploppies (more so than green/black players) probably don't have a clue what the difference is between 6 decks and 8 decks, H17 and S17, or between 3:2 and 6:5. Offering crappy games probably does not cost the casinos that many customers.

In the high end of the market (i.e., black chippers), the approach is very different. Offering crappy penetration will cost them big $ with big players. Offering crappy rules, more importantly, will send their customers over to other casinos. Big players do understand the difference between S17 and H17, and would be insulted having to play an 8 decker. You will NOT find any CSM's, H17 8 deckers, or 6:5 BJ, IN ANY HIGH LIMIT PIT ANYWHERE.

In the middle of the market (green chip), it really can go either way depending on the store.

IMHO, AP's need to tailor their strategies to fit the casino's method of defense. Quality games are to be respected, not butchered -- if you are playing one of the few remaining quality games, nurse the game gently - limit your sessions, use a moderate spread and play with some cover. If you find a game with really crappy rules and horrible penetration, don't run away -- instead, attack it mercilessly. Try spreading from 1:50, wonging in/out, using full indices. You might find out that the game is totally unprotected and very beatable if played the right way. While I won't name stores, I have come across H17 8D games that are very beatable because there is nobody in the casino with anything resembling a brain.
 
Top