Mohegan Sun

[RightClawSouth]

I'm curious how they handled "double down rescue" at Sp21. Say your main bet was $100. You tripled down $200. If you rescued, did they give you back the $200, or half your total bet?

You get the $200 back. Which is awesome in EV terms and especially in variance reduction.

The non-resplitting of aces is bad but not that bad enough to make sp21 w/ tripling anything other than awesome.

And wow, the dealers were terrible, I benefited hugely from so many mistakes.

 

[RightClawSouth]

For anyone that is curious, there was a "catch"....you could not triple after splitting your hand, tripling was only allowed on your initial two cards. I guess that was kind of implied in the advertisements they had up but it was somewhat vague how that would be handled and I did see a few early instances where, in confusion, they allowed triples after splits and paid them.

So, quite early on they did nerf it (to some degree) by only allowing tripling on the first two cards but then inexplicably not long after they went around to all the tables saying it had been changed back to triple anytime!!! (ie after splitting in BJ and after splitting and on any # of cards in spanish). Unbelievable.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

An important question BUT Span21 at M.S. forbids resplit/rehit/double on Split Aces, creating a very high House Advantage.

Not quite that bad, you can resplit aces.

What is disturbing is that they got new felt that does not allow the bonuses on split or doubled hands. That argument that every SP21 player has had with the casino has now been settled (contrary to Shufflemaster's published rules) in favor of the casino, permanently at Mohegan. It probably changes the basic strategy.

 

[johndoe]

I saw a lot of people lose a lot of money, and some people do pretty well; I think many people didn't appreciate the high variance of this game, and substantially increased RoR. Several fairly sharp people touched zero and they were done. I wonder if MS was savvy enough to plan for that.

I took some incredible swings (some of the biggest I ever encountered), but ended up with a tidy though modest profit.

No heat whatsoever that I saw. Some people were slamming away betting two hands of purple for 20+ hours straight like it was a marathon. And several of them busted out; like I said, you have to have a ridiculous bankroll for that kind of action. Those purple stacks grow and shrink at an amazing rate.

What a lot of fun though! I'd be curious to hear how the house made out on it, and how much of a bath they really took. I'll bet it wasn't all that bad.

 

[aslan]

I'd be curious to hear how the house made out on it, and how much of a bath they really took. I'll bet it wasn't all that bad.

From the little I've heard in this thread, the house may even have come out ahead when you factor in the ploppies.

 

[palroot]

I was only there for a few hours early in the morning but I'd be suprised if the casino did not make out pretty well on this promotion. I definitely got caught up in it and got burned pretty bad. I am normally a very conservative player with strict stop-loss and modest stop-win points and I had trouble staying in bounds given the excitement of this promo. And then I capped off my losses by dropping a couple hundred on slots on my way out the door......why? I don't know. I am normally a 4 day-a-week blackjack grinder but I felt the gambler in me get tickled a little bit yesterday and just had to try my luck before I left. I am sure that there were enough less-disciplined players getting out of control all day to make this event profitable for the casino. Glad to hear that others had some modest success.

 

[aslan]

I am normally a very conservative player with strict stop-loss and modest stop-win points and I had trouble staying in bounds given the excitement of this promo. And then I capped off my losses by dropping a couple hundred on slots on my way out the door......why? I don't know. I am normally a 4 day-a-week blackjack grinder but I felt the gambler in me get tickled a little bit yesterday and just had to try my luck before I left.

Welcome to the human race.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

I saw a lot of people lose a lot of money, and some people do pretty well; I think many people didn't appreciate the high variance of this game, and substantially increased RoR. Several fairly sharp people touched zero and they were done. I wonder if MS was savvy enough to plan for that.

I took some incredible swings (some of the biggest I ever encountered), but ended up with a tidy though modest profit.

No heat whatsoever that I saw. Some people were slamming away betting two hands of purple for 20+ hours straight like it was a marathon. And several of them busted out; like I said, you have to have a ridiculous bankroll for that kind of action. Those purple stacks grow and shrink at an amazing rate.

What a lot of fun though! I'd be curious to hear how the house made out on it, and how much of a bath they really took. I'll bet it wasn't all that bad.

Yeah, that was not the kind of game where you can discount short-term variance. We saw some amazing things happen at the table. The TDR rule was awesome, the strategy was very different than normal and there was one set of TDR strategy plays that was very count-dependent and I think a lot of people didn't realize that. The other thing that may have been overlooked is how high your advantage in tripling has to be in order to make it the right play given the short term RoR here. These are not straightforward calculations like they are in BJ because of the importance of the auto-win-on-21 rule, the bonuses and the ability to double on any number of cards.

 

[johndoe]

I do remember looking around and wondering how many people I was playing with were folks I knew from this site.

There was an amusing unspoken camaraderie for all those in the know, especially playing together for such an extended time. Sort of a collective shared wink that was kind of cool. Those who really knew what they were doing were pretty easy to spot, and a joy to play with (for the right reasons).

It was like a convention for AP's, but no one was wearing name tags.

 

[aslan]

Those who really knew what they were doing were pretty easy to spot....

It was like a convention for AP's

Your pictures are being shipped around the country as we speak. :laugh: j/k

 

[handymn]

Maybe not a joke

Your pictures are being shipped around the country as we speak. :laugh: j/k

This is probably not far from the truth. There were some backoffs and flyers being passed around.

 

[kewljason]

Yeah, that was not the kind of game where you can discount short-term variance. We saw some amazing things happen at the table.

You got that right, Monkey. I was down over 6 grand in about an hour, before I had even gotten comfortable in my seat. I made the mistake of under estimating what kind of varience would be involved, playing a unit that was almost as big as my normal max bet, so when I lost a few triple downs early....well ouch...in a hurry. I think I lost my first 4 or 5 triple downs. After that I spent the whole day climbing back close to even, which seemed like a victory. :laugh:

 

[duanedibley]

Yeah, that was not the kind of game where you can discount short-term variance. We saw some amazing things happen at the table. The TDR rule was awesome, the strategy was very different than normal and there was one set of TDR strategy plays that was very count-dependent and I think a lot of people didn't realize that. The other thing that may have been overlooked is how high your advantage in tripling has to be in order to make it the right play given the short term RoR here. These are not straightforward calculations like they are in BJ because of the importance of the auto-win-on-21 rule, the bonuses and the ability to double on any number of cards.

So how much better was this game than Blackjack? I strongly suspected that I should be targeting Spanish 21, but I didn't have enough time to come up with the correct strategy and I could not find it anywhere, so I just showed up with the BJ strategy from WoV memorized and some index plays I figured out on my own. But when I overheard the floor explaining to someone that you could indeed Triple Down Rescue in Spanish I was really kicking myself for not coming prepared to play that game.

I can't complain too much though, since I walked out with a nice 5-figure win

 

[Automatic Monkey]

This is probably not far from the truth. There were some backoffs and flyers being passed around.

Did you see an outright backoff? I saw a flyer but it was not anyone from any of the crews near me, it was a much older man and probably a security issue rather than an AP issue.

 

[aslan]

You got that right, Monkey. I was down over 6 grand in about an hour, before I had even gotten comfortable in my seat. I made the mistake of under estimating what kind of varience would be involved, playing a unit that was almost as big as my normal max bet, so when I lost a few triple downs early....well ouch...in a hurry. I think I lost my first 4 or 5 triple downs. After that I spent the whole day climbing back close to even, which seemed like a victory. :laugh:

Anytime you're that far down and climb back to almost even, it is a victory,,, of the first order!! :celebrate

 

[kewljason]

Did you see an outright backoff? I saw a flyer but it was not anyone from any of the crews near me, it was a much older man and probably a security issue rather than an AP issue.

I wouldn't think backoffs and AP issue wouldn't be that great for this event since many people were flat betting. I used what amounted to a 1-2 spread. Pretty hard to determine someone flat betting to be an AP. I would think, they would be going in the opposite direction, developing a database of players that they wanted to entice back on normal days, thinking them all to be ploppies or BS players at best. I haven't played at MS for several years since I switched up to playing only FW when in that neck of the woods, so I am expecting some decent offers.

 

[Machinist]

Hey ya lieing bstrds!!!!!

I thought we was all friends!!! I thought it was dead!!!!!!!! Geeze.....and i was thinking about handing out a tidbit or two on some new machines!!!:whip::whip:
Seriously though,,,sounds like you all had a good time!!!! wish i could have made it...

Machinist

 

[kewljason]

Anytime you're that far down and climb back to almost even, it is a victory,,, of the first order!! :celebrate

I never really think that short term, nor worry about results from a single day or trip. I always try to think longterm, but what had me worried about this trip after that first hour or so, was that maybe I hadn't brought enough BR with me to contine to play all day. Since I knew I wanted to put in a long day, I would have been kicking myself if I was scrambling to get more funds after a only a couple hours. luckily that didn't happen. As I said, I didn't adjust for the much larger unit I was playing, bringing only about 50% more than my normal day trip BR. I don't know what I was thinking. :laugh:

 

[NightStalker]

Wondering who have slogged

most time on the table?
Anyone over 16hours? may be some anony poll?

 

[duanedibley]

most time on the table?
Anyone over 16hours? may be some anony poll?

22.5 hours