Money found on the ground

[AnIrishmannot2brite]

OK I've been watching this forum for about a month now and looking for ways to enhance any kind of advantage. Or even just to find an advantage in any kind of game be it good or lousy. Like I've said before all the games in my local vicinity are just AWFUL. About the only half decent one (comparatively speaking) is Cache Creek, but even there the stinking 6:5 single deck rules. I play the six deck shoes there and do OK.

But that is a long ride so only go there every couple of months. The weekend insists upon a fifteen dollar min buy in so weekdays are better. It's a nice joint too. Again, a bit too far to go on my busy schedule.

So am "stuck" with these awful places with even money naturals, CSM's and such. Why do i go there? Well always with significant trepidation but besides that I've just been a lucky dog. Have never, not even once lost any money.

So here I am earlier this evening playing this dive going down and up. Shoot had my naturals paid 3:2 I'd have killed the joint. My luck was THAT good.

Well the guy next to me is stupid and doing idiotic things like hitting his 13 against dealers 6. Or hitting his 15 against dealers 2! Well after a few ups and downs I'm up about a hundred fifty. This guy on my right puts up $100.00 gets a ten against dealers 6 but won't double. I mean like WTF!?

If he had the $100.00 and was willing to lose all of it why not double it?

So I ask the dealer if I'm allowed to double my neighbors bet and she says yes. He doesn't mind either. OK I'd have preferred that the deuce didn't hit but since dealer pulls a twenty six it didn't matter.

Money found on the ground as far as I'm concerned.

So I'd like to hear how other people profit off of these kinds of bad players. Seems like another game into itself. You guys have discussed the matter before but now I'm watching for other tips.

Initiative and creativity. It's what made America great. Or at least it used to.

 

[zengrifter]

ZG Interview page-11. zg

 

[AnIrishmannot2brite]

ZG Interview page-11. zg

A game within a game eh? Interesting.

Now about that splitting tens with the ploppie on his last set of chips. If he loses one and you win the other do you "insure" him by covering his loss? Effectively turning it into a push for both players?

And you're dead on accurate about splitting tens: The other players leave quicker than if someone farted big. I did that earlier tonight for no particular reason. There was no advantage condition as it was all with the awful CSM's. I just felt like doing it,

Anyway two hands later I'm playing the dealer one on one. Everyone went for drinks. Later when they came back i was up $150.00 and then $300.00 and called it quits.

I gotta quit playing that joint though. Nothing but a gamble save and except for those "Money found on the ground" opportunities. While "lucky is better than good" I refuse to continue to push my luck.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Most of us have played that game within a game and it's both profitable and enjoyable.

One thing I won't do that some other AP's will is screw a civilian by getting them to make a bad play so you can get in on it and profit yourself. But there are a lot of opportunities where you can both profit yourself and give someone a Basic Strategy lesson, and those are the ones I enjoy the most.

You've got to be careful though, lots of these people have the gambling sickness and ethical problems, and they'll take shots and there isn't too much you can do about it if they do. Pretending they didn't understand the terms of the deal is how they usually do it, then there are the blackmail situations like are being discussed in another thread. Avoid hand interaction with anyone who looks like they might be drunk, high, angry or desperate, or who isn't fluent in English.

Where do you live? There might be some better games available than Cache Creek.

 

[AnIrishmannot2brite]

Bay area, CA.

If I had time would check out Tahoe and Reno. Business has me too busy lately.

From what I know your basic places are River Rock Casino, Jackson Rancheria and Cache Creek. Probably one in the South Bay too but can't remember the name.

Cache Creek is where a guy has a fighting chance. they have decent penetration on six decks. Splits allowed and double any card. I forget some of the other rules. Not sure if there is double after split.

River Rock is mostly CSM's but a few tables have the six deck manual shuffle. However they only use about half the deck. Never the less I really scored big once on a high running count (plus 21), but how often is that gonna happen?

Yeah that was where i split queens against dealers six card. While I received the two worst hands in return (16 & 15) the dealer went bust, Matter of fact had I not split the queens the whole table would have lost including my twenty. Dealer's hole card was a nine: He got another nine and busted But if I didn't split the queens? Well 9 + 6 + 6 = 21...

I've never been to Jackson Rancheria. Nor that one out by Sacto called "Thunder" something.

Otherwise the pickins are even slimmer here. Just a few card rooms with very bad rules. Most manually shuffled deck rooms have a one dollar payment per hand unless you bet over a hundred. That and wild cards which screw up even the best of counts.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

You also have a very playable game at Twin Pines up in Middletown. In fact, it's so playable I've played it! It's the dinkiest, most low-budget place you've ever seen, in a tent more or less. There's a 6D H17 RSA game up there, deeply dealt. Sometimes you can get deep pen at their lone DD table too.

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

you really wanna get into this? i posted a thread with a title something like "doubling down for less strategy", and i was confused at the time, but it spawned from this insane article, or moreso chart.. http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/scavengerbjfo.pdf
that is a very good read if you are looking to do more than just grab obvious hands from idiot players

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

one of the few problems with scavengering (i think i made up a word), is what if a guy lets you double his hand, but you draw a 2, and the guy is like damn i wanted to hit again, you should throw me a chip.. what do you do? say no and start a fight and he wont let you double again? how quickly are you able to do the math to figure out how much to give him and if he will be happy?

 

[toastblows]

:laugh: one time at the Mirage, my brother is standing at a cage to cash up and he sees a black chip on the ground.... truly "money found on the ground". Seriously though it made him paranoid for some reason, so he waited a day to cash it in...:cool2:

 

[aslan]

one of the few problems with scavengering (i think i made up a word), is what if a guy lets you double his hand, but you draw a 2, and the guy is like damn i wanted to hit again, you should throw me a chip.. what do you do? say no and start a fight and he wont let you double again? how quickly are you able to do the math to figure out how much to give him and if he will be happy?

Where I play, once you double down, the dealer will not agree to throw you another card. It's a done deal. If the ploppy had not already agreed to go down for double, then the dealer would not have understood the deuce as a double down and you could not have won double even if the ploppy decided to stand. But my instant reaction was the same as yours, SB, because you just can't trust ploppies to do the right thing.

 

[KenSmith]

I think he meant that the ploppie is asking for compensation BECAUSE he can't hit again, not hoping that he can hit again.

 

[GeorgeD]

one of the few problems with scavengering (i think i made up a word), is what if a guy lets you double his hand, but you draw a 2, and the guy is like damn i wanted to hit again, you should throw me a chip.. what do you do? say no and start a fight and he wont let you double again? how quickly are you able to do the math to figure out how much to give him and if he will be happy?

Aren't you screwing the ploppy exactly for this reason? Yea, doubling may win more money, but it's less likely to win because you he can't hit again. So, the ploppy increases his chance of losing his initial bet, and you get the double if it wins.

But to answer your question, SB, you should make the terms of your offer clear to the ploppy . He might still be PO's that he can't hit that 5-6-2, but he knows what he got into.

 

[AnIrishmannot2brite]

one of the few problems with scavengering (i think i made up a word), is what if a guy lets you double his hand, but you draw a 2, and the guy is like damn i wanted to hit again, you should throw me a chip.. what do you do? say no and start a fight and he wont let you double again? how quickly are you able to do the math to figure out how much to give him and if he will be happy?

Well we received the two card on top of the ten as it was. However my neighbor wasn't going to hit again against dealers six up card.

However the whole matter brings the condition of personalities to the table. A feature largely missing from Blackjack earlier. A little like poker because we have to gauge reaction vs. expectation. Not a lot like other card games really, but a little bit.

Thank you Monkey. Now All I gotta do is find Middletown....

 

[shadroch]

:laugh: one time at the Mirage, my brother is standing at a cage to cash up and he sees a black chip on the ground.... truly "money found on the ground". Seriously though it made him paranoid for some reason, so he waited a day to cash it in...:cool2:

He should have been paranoid. In Atlantic City,it is against the law to remove money that someone left in a coin tray or to play credits that aren't yours. I've heard of people being arrested for it. Would think that would go for chips found on the floor.

 

[toastblows]

He should have been paranoid. In Atlantic City,it is against the law to remove money that someone left in a coin tray or to play credits that aren't yours. I've heard of people being arrested for it. Would think that would go for chips found on the floor.

We figured it had to be someone with loose pockets, maybe a drunk that was sloppy pulling them out of his pocket. he used it as play at a poker table the next day to blend it in.

 

[zengrifter]

Now about that splitting tens with the ploppie on his last set of chips. If he loses one and you win the other do you "insure" him by covering his loss? Effectively turning it into a push for both players?

NO! Just go "partners" on both 10s. zg

 

[Mimosine]

NO! Just go "partners" on both 10s. zg

with splits that is what i do, i say we split the outcome, either way.

People are much more willing to do that, there is a sense of a team and that usually warms them up, even more when you both win. now what usually happens to me is that one of them turns into a double - then it becomes more difficult, i don't have a good way to deal with this, but again the best would be if you both put up HALF of the double.

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

Where I play, once you double down, the dealer will not agree to throw you another card. It's a done deal. If the ploppy had not already agreed to go down for double, then the dealer would not have understood the deuce as a double down and you could not have won double even if the ploppy decided to stand. But my instant reaction was the same as yours, SB, because you just can't trust ploppies to do the right thing.

you misunderstood me, see the post below yours by kenny

Aren't you screwing the ploppy exactly for this reason? Yea, doubling may win more money, but it's less likely to win because you he can't hit again. So, the ploppy increases his chance of losing his initial bet, and you get the double if it wins.

trufs!

He should have been paranoid. In Atlantic City,it is against the law to remove money that someone left in a coin tray or to play credits that aren't yours. I've heard of people being arrested for it. Would think that would go for chips found on the floor.

most casinos have that rule i believe.. money left anywhere in the casino (real or digital) belongs to the player who put it in, and if that player abandons it, it is now the casinos

 

[tribute]

If you hang around long enough, you can't help but find casino freebies. On one trip I walked up to an ATM machine and found two $20 bills left in the dispense tray! I was in Vegas a few years ago, walking across the lobby at Flaming Hilton, found cash on the floor.

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

If you hang around long enough, you can't help but find casino freebies. On one trip I walked up to an ATM machine and found two $20 bills left in the dispense tray! I was in Vegas a few years ago, walking across the lobby at Flaming Hilton, found cash on the floor.

are you sure it was an atm? wasnt it the machine where you cash out your slot tickets? one time i was at that machine, and i put in a $100 voucher, and it spit out the money and i left, well about 15 seconds later, one of the change people came up to me and said, "you left this in there, remember, it doesnt spit all your money out at once all the time, because if its out of certain bills, it could give you all $1 bills", which is exactly what happened, because i figured the huge wad of bills i had had to sum up to $100 unless it was all ones, which was unlikely, besides i figured it would spit it all out at once.. maybe an atm works like that too..

this happened to me when i was at the resorts casino in indiana a few days ago.. i was at a vp machine (very nice one too, 9/6 jacks with progressive!), and i wanted to go check something at the bj table, so i decided since i would be gone 30 seconds, i wont tip my chair.. when i came back, there was a guy at my machine (which i had $125 worth of credits on, my players card was in it, and i had a strategy sheet lying there), and i said, "uh, im at this machine, i was playing it", and he looked at me, and sighed, and acted as if he was 500 pounds and its gonna take him a lot of effort to get up, but he finally got up and said "you know thats my money in there", and i said "no its not" and hes like "yes it is" and i said "dont you even think about it, dont even think about it!" and hes like "i put $5 in there", and then i looked at the machine and it said 520 credits, not 500, so im like, "oh sorry, your right", even tho i knew what he was doing, he was gonna put $5 in, play 2 hands for the cameras and such, and then cash out with my $125, but i reached in my wallet and gave him his $5.. i guess i learned my lesson that i need to tip my chair, or dont leave more than $20 in there