Money Mang. question and a couple of others

[doctorbean]

I am relatively new to blackjack but I recently read Kevin Blackwood's book "Play Blackjack Like the Pros".

My first question is this:
Blackwood discusses how you should allocate money in a six-bet hand using hi-lo on a $10,000 bankroll. He recommends $5 for zero or less, then $20 for 1 in TC, $40 for 2, $60 for 3, $80 for 4, and $100 for 5 and above. But I was thinking of going to Atlantic City because that is closest to me, and in order to play a six deck game there, the minimum bet is $25. So how would altering my bets as follows affect my return:
0-1 $25
2 40
3 60
4 80
5+ 100

I don't have the bankroll to multiply each subsequent bet over 0 by 5 to reflect the spread that is implied. In other words, reflecting Blackwood's original recommendation, based on the requirements of the Atlantic City casinos, should my spread look like this (if I had the bankroll)?:

0 25
1 100
2 200
3 300
4 400
5+ 500

Second question:
I read that the New Jersey Supreme said that casinos cannot throw you out for doing well (cardcounting presumably). So should I worry about being barred from the tables for cardcounting in Atlantic City? If I'm asked to leave or not play, what should I do?

 

[Dyepaintball12]

Atlantic City casinos CANNOT kick you out for card counting. You do not have to be worried about being kicked out.

However, if they suspect you of counting, they can force you to only bet the same amount every hand. (EX: You can only bet $25 every hand from now on), or they could shuffle up whenever they want.


David

 

[beat320]

But I was thinking of going to Atlantic City because that is closest to me, and in order to play a six deck game there, the minimum bet is $25.

Go to the Borgata during a weekday and you will find $5-$10 min 6D games

 

[moo321]

Back count. You don't have the bankroll to play-all at a $25 min table.

 

[Guynoire]

I like Kevin Blackwood's book but I wish that there were two points that he adressed more directly.

1. Play all is only for single and double deck. Shoes you have to backcount or your return is ridicuously low.

2. Don't overbet or you are guaranteed to lose money in the long run.

 

[EasyRhino]

3) Don't look like a total square or you'll be booted faster than necessary. A fanny pack? Seriously?

 

[Kasi]

ISo how would altering my bets as follows affect my return:

Well, like you say, Blackwood is spreading 1-20 and with a $10K roll probably had a pretty low ROR and an overall advantage 1% or more.
You would be spreading only 1-4 and would only have a 400 unit roll vs his 2000. Your overall advantage plummets and your ROR is probably 50% anyway.

So, yes that 25-500 spread would be the same thing if he had a 2000 unit roll.

 

[E-town-guy]

Ya you definitely need to maintain a 1-10 spread or even a 1-20 depending on what game you're playing and if you're going to sit and play all counts. If your BR doesn't allow you to do so because the table min is too high you are forced to wong in. Keep in mind that you can spread from $10-100 and still use a 1-20 spread by playing two hands of $100 (and two hands of 40, 60, and 80 at other TCs).

 

[21forme]

Go to the Borgata during a weekday and you will find $5-$10 min 6D games

I'd rather play on the Boardwalk with 1 to 1.5 decks cut off an 8D shoe than Borgata's 2 to 2+ decks cut off a 6D shoe.

It's correct they cannot throw you out or ask you not to play in AC, but they can make it unprofitable by shuffling as soon as you raise your bet, limit your max bet, and put the cut card at 50%.

 

[doctorbean]

More info please

I'd rather play on the Boardwalk with 1 to 1.5 decks cut off an 8D shoe than Borgata's 2 to 2+ decks cut off a 6D shoe.

It's correct they cannot throw you out or ask you not to play in AC, but they can make it unprofitable by shuffling as soon as you raise your bet, limit your max bet, and put the cut card at 50%.

How often do they do this? At the first sign you're a card counter, or if they see you coming in a lot and winning?

If I put my bet down, and they reshuffle, can I take money off my bet before they pull cards out?

Is Borgata's cut off the shoe standard or does it vary by dealer?

Unrelated question: does anyone know where I can get information on basic strategy for the third card dealt in soft hands? I've been using the Basic Strategy Trainer, and I know what to do with a soft two-card hand. But with after the third card is dealt, it's not clear. Sometimes, I think I should hit, and the computer says I should stand; sometimes I hit when, but the computer tells me to stand.

 

[Doofus]

How often do they do this? At the first sign you're a card counter, or if they see you coming in a lot and winning?

If I put my bet down, and they reshuffle, can I take money off my bet before they pull cards out?

Is Borgata's cut off the shoe standard or does it vary by dealer?

Unrelated question: does anyone know where I can get information on basic strategy for the third card dealt in soft hands? I've been using the Basic Strategy Trainer, and I know what to do with a soft two-card hand. But with after the third card is dealt, it's not clear. Sometimes, I think I should hit, and the computer says I should stand; sometimes I hit when, but the computer tells me to stand.

If it's still a soft hand (i.e. A, 2 plus a 3 equals soft 16), then there's no difference on BS. Moreover, if you have a hard hand with three or four cards (i.e. 3, 4, 5,2 is 14, against a 10 you'll still normally hit), the same plays apply. Check out the Wizard of Odds site for the best BS charts around.

 

[21forme]

How often do they do this? At the first sign you're a card counter, or if they see you coming in a lot and winning?

Hard to say, but I suppose as soon as they know what you are doing, you're history. I've seen my screen at one place and right at the top it says "confirmed skilled player." One place restricted my betting because their neighbor reported me to them. I had no play history there.


If I put my bet down, and they reshuffle, can I take money off my bet before they pull cards out?

Absolutely. Not only should you remove your money, but you should immediately leave. Either have a friend cash out for you or come back some other time (even an hour later wearing different clothes.) If you do cash out, they have a nice, frontal picture of your face from the "eye in the wall" at the cage.


Is Borgata's cut off the shoe standard or does it vary by dealer?


It always varies by dealer, but for the most part it's the same. You can usually find a few dealers still giving a good cut, but most don't.
I played one place yesterday where a dealer was cutting less than a deck!

 

[Kasi]

Either have a friend cash out for you or come back some other time (even an hour later wearing different clothes.) If you do cash out, they have a nice, frontal picture of your face from the "eye in the wall" at the cage.

Probbaly just my conservative nature but I'd be a little careful anyway of having friends cash your money for you. Perhaps depending on the amount but I think sometimes they might have to, or choose to, verify that you were playing and had that much to cash out. At best, they could refuse to cash your friend out. At worst they could suspect money laundering issues. Not sure if they might even have the right to confiscate the chips.

Personal question - answer optional lol.

Does the joint(s) that confirmed you skillful for BJ let you spread at SP21 or do you just avoid that joint(s) altogether anyway?

 

[moo321]

Probbaly just my conservative nature but I'd be a little careful anyway of having friends cash your money for you. Perhaps depending on the amount but I think sometimes they might have to, or choose to, verify that you were playing and had that much to cash out. At best, they could refuse to cash your friend out. At worst they could suspect money laundering issues. Not sure if they might even have the right to confiscate the chips.

Personal question - answer optional lol.

Does the joint(s) that confirmed you skillful for BJ let you spread at SP21 or do you just avoid that joint(s) altogether anyway?

They can confiscate your chips if they realize your runner didn't win them!

 

[Kasi]

They can confiscate your chips if they realize your runner didn't win them!

Thanks - doesn't completely surprise me. Even people who'd like buy in for $500 or $1000, play a short time and cashout can rouse suspicion if they do it often enough.

 

[21forme]

They can confiscate your chips if they realize your runner didn't win them!

Really? I didn't know that...

Re the trust issue, the one time I didn't want to cash out, I gave the chips to my wife to cash out.

 

[rukus]

if youre going on a weekend night and cant afford $25 min table, skip the borgata (unless you like the waitresses and the scantily-clad friday night dancers like i do ). there is always one $10 table (try the middle pit usually) but good luck getting a seat on a friday night there..

try the boardwalk casinos as they generally have lower limits. also, if you play during the grave and day shifts at ANY place in AC you can find table min's less than $25, in particular $15s become very common, even at the borgata.

I am relatively new to blackjack but I recently read Kevin Blackwood's book "Play Blackjack Like the Pros".

My first question is this:
Blackwood discusses how you should allocate money in a six-bet hand using hi-lo on a $10,000 bankroll. He recommends $5 for zero or less, then $20 for 1 in TC, $40 for 2, $60 for 3, $80 for 4, and $100 for 5 and above. But I was thinking of going to Atlantic City because that is closest to me, and in order to play a six deck game there, the minimum bet is $25. So how would altering my bets as follows affect my return:
0-1 $25
2 40
3 60
4 80
5+ 100

I don't have the bankroll to multiply each subsequent bet over 0 by 5 to reflect the spread that is implied. In other words, reflecting Blackwood's original recommendation, based on the requirements of the Atlantic City casinos, should my spread look like this (if I had the bankroll)?:

0 25
1 100
2 200
3 300
4 400
5+ 500

Second question:
I read that the New Jersey Supreme said that casinos cannot throw you out for doing well (cardcounting presumably). So should I worry about being barred from the tables for cardcounting in Atlantic City? If I'm asked to leave or not play, what should I do?

 

[callipygian]

Really? I didn't know that...

It has nothing to do with card counting. It's to prevent people from laundering large sums of drug/robbery money.

 

[Kasi]

Really? I didn't know that...

Re the trust issue, the one time I didn't want to cash out, I gave the chips to my wife to cash out.

You're a braver man than I lol - my wife once cashed out $600 at the cage and only had $400 when she got to the room. Eventually, after much persistence, it was discovered she just was shorted by the cashier who hoped to pocket the money at the end of her shift. Guess she could tell how little she pays attention. Not a bad scam - if discovered immediately - sorry I made a mistake. If not...

I trust no one and she trusts everyone lol. What a pair we are!