morality, ethics & advantage play
- Thread starter sagefr0g
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Yeah, being moral and ethical as an AP is quite possible, it is quite the opposite for a devout religious follower. The weak brainwashed minds of the religious cannot withstand true moral scrutiny therefore I submit they are not worthy of the claim of ethical and moral.sagefr0g said:apparently i missed a great chat where ideas of morality, ethics and maybe religion were discussed with respect to advantage play. (that's what i get for spending so much time in casinos)
so anyone have thoughts on this all important subject?
I will submit that a religious person may to an onlooker be able to play the game honestly and with a fair advantage, but as a whole their mindset is a disillusioned set of values which in turn allows the question: Are immoral minds capable of moral acts while remaining immoral at their core? Is the act of advantage play in direct contradiction with the mindset of the religious? Seeing that deception is a key ingredient in AP, and the religious believe they can be held accountable to their "God" even for silent thoughts, I believe only a true religious believer even while playing an honest game, is in fact practicing an immoral act. At least in the eyes of their spiritual caretaker, which trumps all for those that believe. All others who actually follow true morality and have no belief in the unethical thought crime punishment can honestly say they play the game with an ethical and moral understanding.
That was for you Aslan
21gunsalute
Well-Known Member
Why do you feel the need to speak on behalf of all "religious" people with such stereotyping, mischaracterizations, and just plain untruthful and wrong comments? Every one is different, every religion is different, and most people who practice various religions have differing sets of beliefs and values within these religions. If a particular religion or religion in general isn't for for you, that's fine, but don't criticize others for their beliefs just because you may not have any, and don't lump anyone who practices any type of religion to any degree in the same basket. Finally, don't pretend to be an expert on theology when you don't know what the hell you're talking about.MAZ said:Yeah, being moral and ethical as an AP is quite possible, it is quite the opposite for a devout religious follower. The weak brainwashed minds of the religious cannot withstand true moral scrutiny therefore I submit they are not worthy of the claim of ethical and moral.
I will submit that a religious person may to an onlooker be able to play the game honestly and with a fair advantage, but as a whole their mindset is a disillusioned set of values which in turn allows the question: Are immoral minds capable of moral acts while remaining immoral at their core? Is the act of advantage play in direct contradiction with the mindset of the religious? Seeing that deception is a key ingredient in AP, and the religious believe they can be held accountable to their "God" even for silent thoughts, I believe only a true religious believer even while playing an honest game, is in fact practicing an immoral act. At least in the eyes of their spiritual caretaker, which trumps all for those that believe. All others who actually follow true morality and have no belief in the unethical thought crime punishment can honestly say they play the game with an ethical and moral understanding.
That was for you Aslan
tallmanvegas
Well-Known Member
Are you serious, you really want to go there (ethics, religion)
But MAZ is right. It is a shame our world still relies upon these false religious principles, it only does more harm than good. In the novel, The God Delusion, a group of young 'religious' men (I won't specify which denomination) were asked if it were acceptable to kill a man. They replied 'no' on moral grounds. They were then asked the same question, but this time were asked to factor in that the task was God's will. They then said it would be perfectly acceptable to kill him...21gunsalute said:
"God didn't invent man, man invented God".
Alright young fella take a deep breath and relax. Listen, its like this, if you believe you can be held responsible and accountable for your thoughts and in turn suffer possible infinite punishment, that is immoral as it gets. That is exactly one of the most immoral premises that most religions work on. That is not stereotyping anyone, thats seeing the world as someone that is real. Of course an Islamic car bomber is different then a christian, that is obvious, but not so obvious is that they both follow the same immoral code of thought crime persecution which is a sickening thought. How would you feel if you could go to jail for life for a thought you had? Is that moral? Ethical? Justice? That is exactly what most religions teach and it is a bad way of thinking.21gunsalute said:
So if you believe that a God can read your mind and judge you on it, practicing deception of any sort will make you an immoral practioner. So if you have such beliefs, I'd say AP play is out for you.
21gunsalute
Well-Known Member
I see, so the (alleged) beliefs of one small group of men represent everything every religion has to offer, eh? And all religions are false just because you say they are, eh? Like I stated earlier, believe what you want or feel free to believe nothing at all, but quit trying to bully others into your non-belief. Doing so is just as bad as those who try to force their religion on others.Koz1984 said:
21gunsalute
Well-Known Member
First of all I'm not a young fella, and secondly if you're going to mischaracterize what "most religions" teach at least have the decency to make up some references to back up your mischarcterizations. :grin: I don't know of any religion that teaches such nonsense . Christianity certainly does not. It teaches forgiveness, not damnation for a random impure thought. If that were the case we'd all be going to hell so why bother trying to be moral?MAZ said:
I think you are looking for these threads.sagefr0g said:apparently i missed a great chat where ideas of morality, ethics and maybe religion were discussed with respect to advantage play. (that's what i get for spending so much time in casinos
so anyone have thoughts on this all important subject?
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=16927
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=16850
The interesting postings are the ones from Sonny and Renzey
zengrifter
Banned
Was it a planned chat or just spontaneous?sagefr0g said:apparently i missed a great chat where ideas of morality, ethics and maybe religion were discussed with respect to advantage play. (that's what i get for spending so much time in casinos
If planned, why weren't we invited? zg
21gunsalute
Well-Known Member
Hell does exist. It may just be that you deny it's existense because you are weak minded and can't comprehend that which you haven't or cannot see.Koz1984 said:
See, 2 can play this game of "I know you are, but what am I", but it changes nothing. Ridiculing someone for believing something different from his own beliefs when it cannot be proven one way or another is ridiculous, and may very well be a sign of a weak minded individual trying to force his beliefs on another w/o presenting any factual evidence to the contrary. Why else would anyone ridicule anyone else simply for believing something different? I can think of no other reason.
In his defense, there are AP plays that don't involve deception. Card counting, ST, etc. You could argue that gambling is immoral but then is it really immoral to take money from a corporation who invites you to try and take money from them and makes their money from taking from other people? I believe the reason why many classify gambling as immoral is because there usually is a victim from it and it preys predominately on the poor/uneducated.MAZ said:
Now your actually making sense sparky. But let me help you with your phrasing. If someone is so sure about something that they cannot prove or have no factual evidence supporting it, yes I believe that would take a weak minded person. Believing in God despite lack of evidence is the exact definition of the word needed to hold religion together.....faith. Its the belief in something despite lack of evidence or evidence to the contrary. Sounds silly as their is rarely anything in this world besides religion that allows such nonsense to be taken seriously based on the only premise of, its true because I want it to be regardless of proof. Maybe you should be a progression bettor if thats your ideologicol stance.
As for the evidence, well the burden of proof lies with the religious. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If you say a god has the power to bend and break natural laws of existence, its just nonsense without a shred of evidence besides, "because I said so." I say God cannot read the mind of 1 person let alone billions......prove that he can.
Really? As a CC you are not decieving the casino? You mean you could walk in there proclaim yourself a counter and go about your business without hiding it? If the casino has policies in place that not only do not condone advantage play but they prohibit it, trying to trick them with it is just what may be the definition of.........deception.Thunder said:
Even if the casino itself may be considered immoral, it does not make anyone more moral to try and beat them. I once read a righteous man who steals from a thief is himself a thief of a higher degree. I don't believe there is anything immoral about beating the casino, but then again I don't answer to an invisible God that can persecute me for my thoughts.
creeping panther
Banned
Maz
Maz is highly educated in the area of theology, religion, and to discount what he has to say or to ignore it in it's totality is doing oneself a disservice.
I do know this for a fact and need not take it on faith, Maz has great credentials to argue his position on religion, faith, and 21 Gun Salute is not a young boy,,,but a mature man, and both of these fine men I like to call my friends......one an excellent AP,,,,one a legend
CP
Maz is highly educated in the area of theology, religion, and to discount what he has to say or to ignore it in it's totality is doing oneself a disservice.
I do know this for a fact and need not take it on faith, Maz has great credentials to argue his position on religion, faith, and 21 Gun Salute is not a young boy,,,but a mature man, and both of these fine men I like to call my friends......one an excellent AP,,,,one a legend
CP
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