morality, ethics & advantage play

[Baberuth]

Help me see the light

Do you think the world would be better if we ALL denied God and turned our back on religion because it is all about a thought that might exist in our mind. There is much more to this discussion than God reading minds. Religious or atheist fanatics pushing their views on others helps no one.
We gamble all day long in many ways. A casino offers gambling, but has the odds. Some of us enjoy the challenge and actually win. We bring an act with us for cover which we have learned from each other and added our own personality. The entire casino has an act. They are big corporations telling their employees to treat us nice so we can feel good about the money we spend there. It feels good to be treated nice. There is nothing wrong with the cover act. It is used to keep from getting barred, not for an evil purpose. Let’s not make each other feel guilty in any way for winning
Are we on this site to help each other enjoy winning through sharing…and yes, caring? Being part of a group of intelligent APs, new comers, above average players and even below average players learning to become better all helping each other with shared information is a GOOD thing. Politics and religion talk is not good for any group. Let’s not form sides on politics and religion, but have one team helping each other enjoy casinos and some free vacations. Enjoy the shared information and be kind, thankful and generous as you reap the rewards of your craft.

 

[mathman]

"Can't we all just get along?" :laugh:

 

[21gunsalute]

21gunsalute, I do not think it is wise of you to use the phrase 'factual evidence' when you keep referring to imaginary places and beings. It is very contradictory.

No, it's not wise for you to refer to places and beings as imaginary when you can't prove that they are imaginary. Nor, once aagain, is it wise to criticize another person for his/her beliefs. My beliefs are in no way, shape or form hurting you so why do (and mostly others here) feel so compelled to do so?

 

[21gunsalute]

...but then again I don't answer to an invisible God that can persecute me for my thoughts.

Nor do I, but you seem to be obsessed with being persecuted by God for your thoughts. My religion doesn't teach that and I wouldn't adhere to any religion that would do so, so I have no idea why you keep harping on this misstated, totally illogical concept. You sound even more paranoid than then Puritans.

 

[21gunsalute]

Maz is highly educated in the area of theology, religion, and to discount what he has to say or to ignore it in it's totality is doing oneself a disservice.

So are many, many others who disagree with what he's stated here. Why should I listen to him and ignore others educated in the field with differing points of view? Are you actually saying that I should renounce my faith and turn my back on Christianity because Maz told me to do so? I guess Maz would be my God then. Not going to happen.

I find it disturbing that so many people here are hellbent on ridiculing others for their beliefs and apparently trying to convert them into being atheists. Once again, my beliefs aren't hurting anyone here, and everyone should be free to believe whatever they choose to believe or believe nothing at all. That's what the USA was founded on. Our ancestors left England because of religious persecution and Maz and several other people here seem to be displaying the same mindset as the powers that were in charge of The Church of England during that period. It's all about being power hungry and trying to exert control over another individual. Talk about immoral!

 

[MAZ]

Nor do I, but you seem to be obsessed with being persecuted by God for your thoughts. My religion doesn't teach that and I wouldn't adhere to any religion that would do so, so I have no idea why you keep harping on this misstated, totally illogical concept. You sound even more paranoid than then Puritans.

Really? Now I don't know which religion you follow but if its christianity that suits you, well you damn well have it in writing that your God will not allow your impure thoughts to go unpunished. Are you familiar with something called the 10 commandments? Do you ever remember the word covet being stated a few times within those commandments? You may want to look it up if you don't remember. Anyway, coveting something or someone is a desirable thought that God does not want you to have in certain situations that he outlines. Breaking a commandment is a punishable offense, thus you are to be persecuted by God if you have impure thoughts about your neighbors wife....or his ox or ass for that matter. Real immpressive rules. Is that the best an omnicient being comes up with? I can't covet livestock? Are you sure its just not 1st century mans take on good and bad, because the all powerful seems to lose his relevance with time.

 

[MAZ]

So are many, many others who disagree with what he's stated here. Why should I listen to him and ignore others educated in the field with differing points of view? Are you actually saying that I should renounce my faith and turn my back on Christianity because Maz told me to do so? I guess Maz would be my God then. Not going to happen.

I find it disturbing that so many people here are hellbent on ridiculing others for their beliefs and apparently trying to convert them into being atheists. Once again, my beliefs aren't hurting anyone here, and everyone should be free to believe whatever they choose to believe or believe nothing at all. That's what the USA was founded on. Our ancestors left England because of religious persecution and Maz and several other people here seem to be displaying the same mindset as the powers that were in charge of The Church of England during that period. It's all about being power hungry and trying to exert control over another individual. Talk about immoral!

I agree we should all be free to believe anything we want. But you have asked things from me and I have given them to you. I do not ridicule you or any believer, but Im just as entitled to state my opinion as you. And when you scream for evidence or fact, I can provide a very lucid argument on my behalf, you can only argue faith. But thats fine I do not care to change you, but don't get your panties in a bunch if I can easily defend my position when you ask for it.

As for converting to atheism, thats impossible. Atheism is not dogma or a belief. Its just not caring to believe in unsubstantiated claims. I don't believe in the tooth fairy either, that doesn't mean I have converted to the church of non believers in tooth fairies. I need not disprove God or fairies, its not me who claims them to be real.

By the way I now know you are a christian after reading your last post, something I was unaware of when I made my previous post. No matter my reference to the 10 commandments stands as is.

 

[21gunsalute]

Really? Now I don't know which religion you follow but if its christianity that suits you, well you damn well have it in writing that your God will not allow your impure thoughts to go unpunished. Are you familiar with something called the 10 commandments? Do you ever remember the word covet being stated a few times within those commandments? You may want to look it up if you don't remember. Anyway, coveting something or someone is a desirable thought that God does not want you to have in certain situations that he outlines. Breaking a commandment is a punishable offense, thus you are to be persecuted by God if you have impure thoughts about your neighbors wife....or his ox or ass for that matter. Real immpressive rules. Is that the best an omnicient being comes up with? I can't covet livestock? Are you sure its just not 1st century mans take on good and bad, because the all powerful seems to lose his relevance with time.

Well, despite what CP stated, I'm not too impressed with your credentials. The Book of Exodus, which contain The Ten Commandments, was written long before the first century. In fact it preceeded the first century by several thousand years.

And coveting something is more than just a random thought, it's an obsession. It's very much like what you're displaying here, being overly obsessive about trying to squash the beliefs of anyone you choose to be in disagreement with. This obsession seems to have become a religion to you, setting yourself up as god and trying to control (and punish) all those who don't agree with you. I can see no other explanation for your behavior.

We can agree to disagree and that's fine, but trying to control the beliefs of another is way beyond the call of duty. That's what the Islamic Extremeists and most noteably Al Qaida are involved in. They obsess to the point of exerting control and power over other individuals and groups by using force and violence, just because someone or some groups have different beliefs than they do. So why do you feel the need to control what other people believe? Is this to what you aspire? I certainly hope not.

 

[21gunsalute]

I agree we should all be free to believe anything we want. But you have asked things from me and I have given them to you. I do not ridicule you or any believer, but Im just as entitled to state my opinion as you. And when you scream for evidence or fact, I can provide a very lucid argument on my behalf, you can only argue faith. But thats fine I do not care to change you, but don't get your panties in a bunch if I can easily defend my position when you ask for it.

As for converting to atheism, thats impossible. Atheism is not dogma or a belief. Its just not caring to believe in unsubstantiated claims. I don't believe in the tooth fairy either, that doesn't mean I have converted to the church of non believers in tooth fairies. I need not disprove God or fairies, its not me who claims them to be real.

By the way I now know you are a christian after reading your last post, something I was unaware of when I made my previous post. No matter my reference to the 10 commandments stands as is.

Ah, but atheism is a belief; it's the belief that God does not exist! And that my friend takes a lot more faith IMO.

I can't prove that God exists and you cannot prove that God doesn't exist. We both have beliefs that are based on faith. The only difference is that I've chosen to believe in something positive while you have apparently choosen to believe in something negative. You're free to do so, but I have no idea why you'd want others to believe in negativity too.

 

[RJT]

Ah, but atheism is a belief; it's the belief that God does not exist! And that my friend takes a lot more faith IMO.

Atheism is the simple acceptance that there is no evidence to support the existence of a god and as such the realisation that it is irrational argue that there is reason to hold to belief in such a being despite this lack of evidence.
I don't believe that i cannot change any substance into gold with my touch, i know i can't as there is no evidence to support the idea that i can. No faith involved, simply a lack of evidence to the contrary.
And this double bluff get out of any situation 'but you can't prove he doesn't exist' used time and time again by the faithful to make those that hold no belief look as if they have as little supporting evidence as the faithful is flawed in its rational. The burden of proof lies with the claimant - ie the person claiming that god does exist. If i claim that my neighbour is a criminal, the burden of proof would lie with me to show that he is, not with him to defend against my unsubstantiated claims.

RJT.

 

[MAZ]

Ah, but atheism is a belief; it's the belief that God does not exist! And that my friend takes a lot more faith IMO.

I can't prove that God exists and you cannot prove that God doesn't exist. We both have beliefs that are based on faith. The only difference is that I've chosen to believe in something positive while you have apparently choosen to believe in something negative. You're free to do so, but I have no idea why you'd want others to believe in negativity too.

You don't get it. Not believing in something does not make it a belief system. I agree you cannot prove that God exists, so if thats the case why do I need to prove he does? Im not the one with blind faith. Im not the one choosing to believe in something I cannot prove exists. That sounds like insanity to me. That statement alone is enough for me to say WTF. I believe in math and science and the natural laws of existence. That is enough evidence for me that there is no supernatural being out there breaking these laws of nature because there is no proof otherwise. You really don't want to get into the breakdown of the bible with me as I think I have gauged what your understanding to be. As far as Exodus and just about all of the old Testament, though its true they were written well before the first century, although there is not one original text of any book of the bible, its cannonization did not begin until much later.

Really man, believe what you want, I don't sweat it and neither should you. You need to quit the dramatics on religious persecution and Al Queda referencing when someone does not share your faith and submits their opinion on it. Don't be so defensive it doesn't bode well with your argument on faith. I'm not trying to be your God like you stated before. Why the hell does there even have to be a God at all? If you found yours to be false do you really need to replace it with another? And being an atheist does not mean I believe in something negative by any means. It means I can be a good caring honest loving person on my own without the excuse or fear of God. Can you name one moral act that can be done by a Christian that cannot be done by an atheist.................I didn't think so.

 

[sagefr0g]

banned, barred, trespassed or you just can't play bj

first off lemme state that i believe there have been, are now and can be corrupt laws.
actually i have no interest in over throwing this law, but i find it corrupt.
that law being where a business establishment open to the public (age prohibitions not withstanding) can trespass a person from it's property for whatever reason the proprietors of the business deem fit.
this law seems to make it possible to override anti-discrimination laws by allowing a shroud of sorts with respect to the reason for trespass.
further, in the case of casinos the trespass law (at the heart or spirit of the law) allows the casino to restrict any person's right to exercise commerce with legal tender. just me maybe but that scenario to me just screams of corruption.
am i missing something here?

 

[Baberuth]

God bless Maz and 21Gun

Maz, the learned one has spoken. “Don’t do yourself a disservice and ignore it in its totality. “ Are you ^&*(@#$ kidding? No offense Maz, but you are out of bounds and anyone who follows you and your obsession of being punished for a thought is a fool. All religions have changed over hundreds of years, but Christian teachings are people helping each other. You keep mentioning one subject.
So you don’t believe in God and you want everyone to know, if they do, they are fools. Don’t get angry if I say a prayer for you and wish you well, taught in Sunday school. Don’t get angry if I see you broke down on the side of the road and help you. Don’t feel anger if I share my last cup of water with you. Don’t feel bad if I put my life on the line for you against evil. Don’t get angry if that came from Christian life. If I said a prayer and saved your soul, don’t be upset.
You may feel I am uninformed, but in the end, if you were in trouble and I should be passing your way, you would get saved. When you are helped in some way soon, ask if it is me, the Christian. Now those are pretty good odds.
God Bless you Maz

Baberuth

 

[KenSmith]

Somewhere along the line the AP part of the topic got misplaced, and we ended up on religion. Thread closed.