More dealer errors

kewljason

kewljason

Well-Known Member
Ok was playing a boardwalk (AC) casino today. Me and one other player. Player 1 is dealt crap. I forget what he had. I have hard 20. Dealer has 7 showing. Player 1 takes a hit. Dealer slides 2 cards out. I can see one is an ace. He gives player 1 a card, which is a ten. He busts. He slides the second card back towards the shoe, to be the next card played. So I double down. :) had to convince him that I didn't want to split my 10's, but rather double down. Of course he shouts "doubling hard 20". :( Not good. 2 pit guys glance over. I draw an ace! (oh what a surprise) The pit guys are now glaring at me as if I cheated. But WTF, if the sloppy dealer is going to show the card, I'm taking advantage of it. Here's the problem though. I only had a 2 unit bet out at the time, so I only won an extra $50. I wasn't being rated at the time, but it is a casino I play pretty regularly, 2-3 times a week. Was winning that extra $50 bucks, worth the attention I might have drawn to myself, which could carry over to the future??
 
rrwoods

rrwoods

Well-Known Member
kewljason said:
Ok was playing a boardwalk (AC) casino today. Me and one other player. Player 1 is dealt crap. I forget what he had. I have hard 20. Dealer has 7 showing. Player 1 takes a hit. Dealer slides 2 cards out. I can see one is an ace. He gives player 1 a card, which is a ten. He busts. He slides the second card back towards the shoe, to be the next card played. So I double down. :) had to convince him that I didn't want to split my 10's, but rather double down. Of course he shouts "doubling hard 20". :( Not good. 2 pit guys glance over. I draw an ace! (oh what a surprise) The pit guys are now glaring at me as if I cheated. But WTF, if the sloppy dealer is going to show the card, I'm taking advantage of it. Here's the problem though. I only had a 2 unit bet out at the time, so I only won an extra $50. I wasn't being rated at the time, but it is a casino I play pretty regularly, 2-3 times a week. Was winning that extra $50 bucks, worth the attention I might have drawn to myself, which could carry over to the future??
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I'd have just said "hey, she flashed me the card".
 
M

matt21

Well-Known Member
hey jason,
did they know that you knew that i was an A coming?
if they did know, that you had seen it, then would they have burned the card or played it?

if the card would not have been burned then i would have said "I know its an ace so i am going to take the most advantage and double down".

if they had been unaware then i would not have doubled down (i.e. i would hvae stood on my hard 20) - to avoid drawing all that attention. but that's just me.

good luck!!
 
J

johndoe

Well-Known Member
rrwoods has it right, just be open about it if they're puzzled, no big deal. It was only $50 anyhow.
 
F

fredperson

Active Member
Jason...
When the dealer questioned your double, I would have responded, "sorry, I meant to split" That would have taken the heat off. You are pretty well sure of one winner, and maybe two. But you would not have alerted the dealer to be more careful.
 
T

tripsix

Well-Known Member
Kudos! You did exactly right.

Don't sweat it, especially since it's in AC. The PB's are supposed to glare at you, that's their job sometimes!
I wouldn't say a word, especially about being flashed. Talking about advanced techniques would definately bring heat!
If they really press you to where you're uncomfortable, confide in them a crazy story. "I know it sounds crazy, but I swear I heard my Mom call my name and say double." Look around eerily and say, "but she is NOT here!":eek:

May all your flashes be Aces!
 
1

1357111317

Well-Known Member
I think splitting would have been the best option here. You are guarenteed 21 on the one split and the he EV for hitting 10 v 7 is 25% so you are only giving up roughly ~95%-25% *50$ which is about 35 dollars compared to if you doubled. This would only be if you think doubling would draw too much attention. If not, double away.
 
S

shark

Active Member
It depends on how regular you are at this place and how often you'll be playing in front of those same PBs eyes. Personally, I would not have made this move. It might have been a good opportunity to split the tens up to add to cover. Doubling a hard 20 means they knew you knew an ace was coming and of course it did. Cheating or flashing, they know you have an eye for spotting additional advantage and they will keep that in mind when watching your play.
 
moo321

moo321

Well-Known Member
I would have stayed, hoping the dealer had a seventeen, and bet table max on the next hand. If I had a bigger bet out, I would have considered splitting. Might double a soft twenty, but not hard.
 
kewljason

kewljason

Well-Known Member
moo321 said:
I would have stayed, hoping the dealer had a seventeen, and bet table max on the next hand. If I had a bigger bet out, I would have considered splitting. Might double a soft twenty, but not hard.
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As I said in original post, there was a player to my right, so I would not have received that ace. Although it hadn't accured to me before that if player 1 had seen the ace, which he should have, he was probably pissed at me for making this move.
 
H

H Bomb

Active Member
kewljason said:
As I said in original post, there was a player to my right, so I would not have received that ace. Although it hadn't accured to me before that if player 1 had seen the ace, which he should have, he was probably pissed at me for making this move.
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You could've back-betted him if this was allowed.
 
kewljason

kewljason

Well-Known Member
13Counter said:
you should of split then!!
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Several people have said this. I don't understand this thinking at all. Splitting guarantees 1 hand of 21, which in all likelyhood is a win. But the other? who knows. you could bust, for a net gain of 0. Doubling guarantees a 21, which in all likelyhood is a double win.

So it becomes about drawing attention. Doubling hard 20. yes of course that draws attention. They are going to know you knew the next card, whether flashing or ace tracking or what. Ok splitting 10's vs dealer seven? like that doesn't draw attention. I wouldn't know because I have never done so, but I've split 10's against 5 and 6 and THAT draws attention, so surely splitting 10's vs 7 will draw attention. (especially when the dealer yells out splitting 10's vs 7!!!)

So to my way of thinking the question is: is doing anything worth the attention, because either move will draw the attention of the pit. If you decide it is worth the attention, (which is the part I'm really not sure about) seems to me you should make the play that almost guarantees a double win.
 
ihate17

ihate17

Well-Known Member
If you admit you saw the ace, who gets the attention?

Similar to the original post, I am playing at a casino with some "in need of repair" ASM's. One of the things these machines do is turn a card upside down sometimes, the casino calls this a boxed card.
As fate would have it, I have a big bet out and get dealt a 13 vs dealer 9 but a glance at the shoe tells me that the next card out is an 8 and I double. When the dealer sees that the 8 was boxed, after giving me the card he calls the pit (with a smile on his face).
The pit (stupidly) asks me if I saw the 8 and I say yes. He then says that he thinks the card should be burned!
I state, "wasn't that 8 the next card to be dealt/"
He says something to the effect that I should not have been allowed to double.
I tell him that I would totally agree with him if it was my shuffling machine that messed up but since it's the casinos machine, the casino should live with it's errors. Anyway, I got paid double.

Point is, if you admit that you did see the ace the only one who will really get attention here is the dealer. If you are a local to this casino you may not want to do this but once you have doubled they will at least suspect you knew there was an ace coming and though you may have steered yourself an ace (margin of error would still probably have you standing in this case with 20), they are much more likely to think you either are partners with the dealer or the dealer mistakenly flashed you the card.

For the sake of making life easier for both you and the dealer (though you might just walk out the door), it is better for the dealer to admit to an error than be suspected of being a cheat. So, the real attention here will be on the dealer.

ihate17
 
C

ccl

Well-Known Member
i watched a csm game one time playing, best move i ever made was playing the table. Ended up dealer error loading the cards into the machine upside down, causing the cards to come out of the shuffler face up. ended up going on for maybe 15 mins before being noticed, i was out the door as soon as someone pointed out you could see the next card over 50% of the time out the shuffler.

ccl
 
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