n00b got banned from playing BJ...

[evilrobotmonkey]

today i sat down at a $5 min double deck table and i was playing two hands. i was spreading $5 - $55 on both hands (got bolder and went up to $75 one hand), and soon enough, i noticed a pit boss standing behind my table and watching my table. i wasn't sure if she was really watching so i turned around a few times, and she would look away. i flat betted for a while, but she continued standing there... then the count got high. i increased my bet to only $10. i lost that hand. the count was still high, so the next hand i jumped to $55. the pit boss then walked over and hastily pushed my bets back. she told me to "play any game but BJ, we don't do your style here" in a nasty tone.

getting caught is a pretty crappy feeling. i feel like i got caught shoplifting or something. i'm kind of scared to keep playing now.

i guess i'm gonna need to have thick skin if i'm gonna keep doing this?

i'm obviously not gonna go back to play at that location. it's a smaller casino with sister locations. am i going to be able to play at the sister locations? i have a players card and used it the day when i got banned from playing BJ (bad idea??). are they going to have me on file or something like that? i hear that the bigger casinos like mgm/mirage and harrahs are less likely to give counters problems.

what are your experiences with getting heat and getting banned?

and of course, i learned my lesson...... MORE COVER!

 

[InPlay]

Here we go again. Light them if you got them, because he surely has.

 

[mjbballar23]

your problem was spreading $5 - 75 in a double deck game. Enough said

 

[evilrobotmonkey]

your problem was spreading $5 - 75 in a double deck game. Enough said

what can i get away with spreading in a DD game?

 

[Sonny]

So you were betting between $10 and $150 per round? Yeah, a 1-15 spread at a DD game is going to get a lot of attention. I would suggest starting at smaller stakes until you get a feel for things. Spreading $5-$50 at a DD game will give you some good practice with heat management and avoidance. Know which bosses are going to give you trouble. Be aware of the pit boss’ schedules and figure out when they aren’t paying attention. Try to time your play with times they will be distracted, and think of ways to keep them away from your table. Find out if they like to watch any other players too. If you want to get away with a wild spread like that, you need to have a good plan of attack.

Many book suggest a 1-6 or 1-8 bet spread for DD games (half of what you were doing), but you can often do better than that at certain times. A lot of the answers you are looking for can be found in the books suggested in the FAQ thread.

-Sonny-

 

[callipygian]

Not to be a jerk about it, but this was brought up last week ...

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=10698

 

[bj bob]

today i sat down at a $5 min double deck table and i was playing two hands. i was spreading $5 - $55 on both hands (got bolder and went up to $75 one hand), and soon enough, i noticed a pit boss standing behind my table and watching my table.. the count was still high, so the next hand i jumped to $55. the pit boss then walked over and hastily pushed my bets back. she told me to "play any game but BJ, we don't do your style here" in a nasty tone.

getting caught is a pretty crappy feeling. i feel like i got caught shoplifting or something. i'm kind of scared to keep playing now.

and of course, i learned my lesson...... MORE COVER!

I hate to be the first to say it, but WE TOLD YOU SO!!!.Just remember the famous beer commercial "More cover, less spread!" By the way, your episode seems to confirm my suspicions that female PB's are more likely to boot female players. Just being sexist here, nothing personal.

 

[evilrobotmonkey]

I hate to be the first to say it, but WE TOLD YOU SO!!!.Just remember the famous beer commercial "More cover, less spread!" By the way, your episode seems to confirm my suspicions that female PB's are more likely to boot female players. Just being sexist here, nothing personal.

yeah i know... i was warned!!!

i'm a stupid monkey who wanted to see what i could get away with... now i know!

 

[bj bob]

yeah i know... i was warned!!!

i'm a stupid monkey who wanted to see what i could get away with... now i know!

If it's any consolation, you're not the only monkey around here that likes to push the envelope. Difference is, the other monkey has the envelope precisely calculated.

 

[FrankieT]

today i sat down at a $5 min double deck table and i was playing two hands. i was spreading $5 - $55 on both hands (got bolder and went up to $75 one hand), and soon enough, i noticed a pit boss standing behind my table and watching my table. i wasn't sure if she was really watching so i turned around a few times, and she would look away. i flat betted for a while, but she continued standing there... then the count got high. i increased my bet to only $10. i lost that hand. the count was still high, so the next hand i jumped to $55. the pit boss then walked over and hastily pushed my bets back. she told me to "play any game but BJ, we don't do your style here" in a nasty tone.

getting caught is a pretty crappy feeling. i feel like i got caught shoplifting or something. i'm kind of scared to keep playing now.

i guess i'm gonna need to have thick skin if i'm gonna keep doing this?

i'm obviously not gonna go back to play at that location. it's a smaller casino with sister locations. am i going to be able to play at the sister locations? i have a players card and used it the day when i got banned from playing BJ (bad idea??). are they going to have me on file or something like that? i hear that the bigger casinos like mgm/mirage and harrahs are less likely to give counters problems.

what are your experiences with getting heat and getting banned?

and of course, i learned my lesson...... MORE COVER!

What was the deck penetration, you probably weren't making **** and the pit critter is a paranoid moron. To feel bad about getting kicked out for betting intelligently is rediculous. The pit critter could at least be nice to you when kicking you off, what a nimrod.

 

[zengrifter]

1-36 spread at 2D -

From and old ZG CCCafe post -

Having been backed-off 3x in the past 24mos at the Golden Nugget, I had taken to short sessions there and no player tracking - my most recent session I resolved to limit to 30min, and when the pitcritter offered to track me I scowled at her, "I dont need another $5000 free dinner, I'm here to win money" and she said fine.

Edging 33min, spreading from 1x $25 to 3x $300 I was up $4k, and coloring up to go, when the shift mgr suddenly appeared and slapped his card on the table announcing "I'm the shift mgr and YOU are no longer allowed to play BJ at ANY MGM-Mirage casino!"

I looked up sheepishly and asked in mock sincerity "Gee, was it something I said?" The SM admonished me "save the smart remarks or I'll have security escort you off the premises!"

I collected my short stack of purples and replied "Well in that case, let me just say that it was NICE BEATING YOU!"

Think my spread was excessive? What the hell, I was barred there anyway. And, I have played the GNugget no less than several times since the above session, one session lasting for 4 hours and through a shift-change.
​

 

[bj bob]

1-36 spread at 2D -

From and old ZG CCCafe post -

Having been backed-off 3x in the past 24mos at the Golden Nugget, I had taken to short sessions there and no player tracking - my most recent session I resolved to limit to 30min, and when the pitcritter offered to track me I scowled at her, "I dont need another $5000 free dinner, I'm here to win money" and she said fine.

Edging 33min, spreading from 1x $25 to 3x $300 I was up $4k, and coloring up to go, when the shift mgr suddenly appeared and slapped his card on the table announcing "I'm the shift mgr and YOU are no longer allowed to play BJ at ANY MGM-Mirage casino!"

I looked up sheepishly and asked in mock sincerity "Gee, was it something I said?" The SM admonished me "save the smart remarks or I'll have security escort you off the premises!"

I collected my short stack of purples and replied "Well in that case, let me just say that it was NICE BEATING YOU!"

Think my spread was excessive? What the hell, I was barred there anyway. And, I have played the GNugget no less than several times since the above session, one session lasting for 4 hours and through a shift-change.
​

True enough, but thy kingdom is not of our world.

 

[FrankieT]

1-36 spread at 2D -

From and old ZG CCCafe post -

Having been backed-off 3x in the past 24mos at the Golden Nugget, I had taken to short sessions there and no player tracking - my most recent session I resolved to limit to 30min, and when the pitcritter offered to track me I scowled at her, "I dont need another $5000 free dinner, I'm here to win money" and she said fine.

Edging 33min, spreading from 1x $25 to 3x $300 I was up $4k, and coloring up to go, when the shift mgr suddenly appeared and slapped his card on the table announcing "I'm the shift mgr and YOU are no longer allowed to play BJ at ANY MGM-Mirage casino!"

I looked up sheepishly and asked in mock sincerity "Gee, was it something I said?" The SM admonished me "save the smart remarks or I'll have security escort you off the premises!"

I collected my short stack of purples and replied "Well in that case, let me just say that it was NICE BEATING YOU!"

Think my spread was excessive? What the hell, I was barred there anyway. And, I have played the GNugget no less than several times since the above session, one session lasting for 4 hours and through a shift-change.
​

Nice story. I wish I had a cool back off story but i've never been backed off. I've never put that kind of cabbage on the table either hehe. If it were a perfect world, pit bosses who back people off would do it in a polite manner. A lot of these people loath the fact that you are making their job a tad bit harder and they don't get to just daydream their days away with tables full of mindless suckers.

 

[callipygian]

A lot of these people loath the fact that you are making their job a tad bit harder and they don't get to just daydream their days away with tables full of mindless suckers.

Let's not underappreciate pit bosses. Their job isn't just to sit around and watch for card counters, and there's a lot of other truly undesirable people that they eliminate which benefit us all - thieves and robbers.

Feel safe walking around with $4,000 cash in your pocket? Thank casino security. Are you able to leave your chips on the table with no fear of someone swiping them? Thank the dealers and the pit boss.

That being said, given that card counters really don't hurt the bottom line, if they have such important things to do, why not focus on those and leave the counters be, so long as counters don't start moving to the $100/$500 tables?

 

[shadroch]

I wish we had a pitboss here to eliminate some of the undesirables. The folks who keep coming on with multiple ids and waste our time with stories of phantom play and non-existant barrings.

 

[Swede]

To the grizzled & wise veterans on the board here,
How much time should one allow before going back to play at a place they've been backed off?
I was recently backed off at a joint and am deliberating whether to return already after a matter of a few weeks?
It is a sinking feeling to be kicked out of a good game, but it is was comforting when the pit boss reassured me the right to play the slots, roulette, or any other sucker games outside of blackjack.

 

[ihate17]

coming into this thread late but

your problem was spreading $5 - 75 in a double deck game. Enough said

It is not only the spread. There are times if you know what you are doing you can get down a 15-1 or higher spread, but while a pit is standing there and counting down the deck defies all common sense!
Not only did he put this big bet out in front of that pit but in a way he was showing her up also. Check out my game, well see about that, here is a big bet.
Just flat bet that DD and maybe stick around for another with minimal spread and then leave and do not come back that shift.

ihate17

 

[ihate17]

An unforgivable act!

What was the deck penetration, you probably weren't making **** and the pit critter is a paranoid moron. To feel bad about getting kicked out for betting intelligently is rediculous. The pit critter could at least be nice to you when kicking you off, what a nimrod.

Everyone here has missed something in this case. This is just not some player spreading big and getting backed off at double deck. If that is to be done it should be done nicely.
I think that there was a fair chance that this pit was counting down the shoe as she stood there and watching our players bets. Then when you put an 11-1 bet out right in front of the pit, you are now showing up the pit, embarrasing the pit, call it what you want but never ever do anything that will make the pit look bad.
This pit will not have to answer to her boss about a counter spreading right in fromt of her face and her letting the counter get away with it. She took the very proper action to maintain her position.

We play a cat and mouse game with casinos. If one instead decides open confrontation is the way to go and the casino shows him the door quickly, why would you be surprised? It is not even the amount of money, it is the unforgivable act.

ihate17

 

[zengrifter]

To the grizzled & wise veterans on the board here,
How much time should one allow before going back to play at a place they've been backed off?
I was recently backed off at a joint and am deliberating whether to return already after a matter of a few weeks.

For me if I'm playing a lot - typically about 6-12 weeks and some perceptial/personal shifts. zg

 

[Spinner9]

Don't beat urself up

Not long ago I had a little problem also....... after about 4 months of play at my favorite joint spreading 1-20x $5min on double deck tables (playing at least once a week sometimes 2-3 times) I got a little heat. I split 8s 3 times doubling once with a $140 bet, dealer busted the hell out of his 5. A few minutes later some clown I've never seen before comes down and whispers to the dealer something..... I read his lips... "theres too much difference in his betting" and "shuffle when bet increases".... well whatever man I thought they didn't care to be honest. I had to see how far I could take it. I did it for 4 months without a word said. And guess what, I was playing again the next morning. My guess is the wrong person saw the wrong hand. I got the hell out real quick like though. Just be smart. It did give me that sick to the stomach feeling though.

Edit - It has been more like 2.5 months of play spreading 12x - 20x max. Not 4 months.