Noob Experience.

[RingyDingy]

Update

Boy do i now feel like im back in grade school! so much learning to do!

So, this weekend just passed, i stayed away from the house of Evil, and read and practised, and for all intenisve purposes, im now moving on from BS, as i consider it "learnt".

So ive been working on the counting of pairs, not just single cards, or looking at a pair and singling each card out then doing the maths, but treating them as a couple.

Ive also gotten into the habit of having my chip pile be my reminder when i need to do something else. just a couple of chips in my hand or whatever, gives my brain a chance to "normalise" before resuming the count.

So anyways, Monday ill go back into the breach, with the house having its .89% edge over me, and ill see how i go. Im not going to alter my bankroll as yet, as i really do consider this to be my "learning expenses"

And for the record, beacuse hopefully ill look back one day, single deck count is at 33 seconds.

 

[EyeHeartHalves]

Hey Ringy,

If you were going to be on my team (I know you're not. I'm just saying...), you would be provided with a sheet of blank boxes in a matrix. Accross the top, the columns would be labled '2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 T A'. The rows would go from '2,2' all the way to 'soft-20'. I would hand you this sheet when you're not completely expecting it and give you 15 minutes to fill in every BS decision. For every box that's wrong, it's a one point deduction from 100. 99 is a failure! If you failed, I'd give you some hints/advice about what you got wrong and hand you the same sheet again in about a week or so. Yes, it does feel just like grade school but let me tell you, winning thousands of dollars per night for a couple nights feels like a rock star.

The next step is to count down 51 cards in pairs or singles (your choice but I'd advise pairs) in 30 seconds with 100% accuracy. Meaning, the clock stops with the fifty first card but then you have to state the count value of the 52nd. This is a good test for memorizing count values and speed but not very good for accuracy.

For everything else, you should really start playing with eight decks of cards at home. You really need to "get a feel for the game" and I wouldn't suggest trying to do that in a casino. One advantage we have to poker players is that "we can practice." They really can't. They have to actually play for real. So, take advantage of this before you lose money. I mean, flat betting with BS is okay for recreation and gaining a little experience but just as long as you see it as that. I still remember the night I felt the "quickening" when I turned from civillian to advantage play soldier and it was on my dining room table, not a casino table.

Plus, if you need more help with playing and want an answer more quickly, don't be shy about sending me a PM.

 

[Harman]

Yeah, and some best ways to learn BS is to try and memorise it at night, then have friends deal to you, whilst you have 5 seconds to make a BS choice. Narrow this down to 4 seconds etc. The best way to practice BS blackjack is to play BS blackjack :joker:

 

[RingyDingy]

Update

Wow, this school even has lots of Homework!

Well I had a quick few hours yesterday at the casino, and the net result was +75. So now i am only a lil behind.

I signed up for thier comps program, dunno if that was a good idea or not, but im sick of paying for thier food, so i may as well get it for free.

Interestingly enough, i found counting harder this time, i really struggled, the dealers that i had were kinda strange, in that one was a total speed demon, the other really had the knack of making that loud "snap" sound with each card, kinda put me off. I think that combined with all the people around, meat i wasnt "switched on".

Well i took EHH's (your nic is too hard to type ) advice and drew up the BS grid in excel, and played it out, i made two mistakes the first time, then i was cool after that i repeated it about a dozen times, so i am cool with it now, i hope

Ok now for my counting issue, and where i seem to come unstuck, my brain has serious issues around one concept, its what i call the good vs evil issue, please bear with me while i explain.

Picture cards, in my box are good, YAY! so i think of them as a positive so therefore "good", yet really they are actually a negative or evil in terms of the count.

So what happen is, (i think) that my brain goes, sweet a couple of picture cards, we rock +2) when in fact, its -2. i have tripped up on this many times, and as you all well kow, it only takes a couple of seconds to pass before the count is fubar and you have no hope of recovery.

Anyways, thats where i am up to today, the next few days are busy with work and family so not sure how much time i can get in, but hopefully i can at least get some practise in.

Again thank you all for your advice and encouragement

cheers


Ringy.

 

[EasyRhino]

So what happen is, (i think) that my brain goes, sweet a couple of picture cards, we rock +2) when in fact, its -2. i have tripped up on this many times, and as you all well kow, it only takes a couple of seconds to pass before the count is fubar and you have no hope of recovery.

I had this problem too. in fact, I just decided to roll with it, and flipped my count. Negative is good, and positive is bad. I don't necessarily recommend this, though.

Either way you go, more training will get the count direction more automatic.

 

[needanewkitchen]

interesting thread for noobs!

I have been counting ..or TRYING to for a little while now...

I havent hit the casinos yet!

I wonder when its time i am "ready": for a casino.

what is the time limit you need to get down to...to be ready?

 

[EyeHeartHalves]

Hey needanew,

I don't know if there's a "time limit." It's more about knowing for sure that you have "positive expectation" before you put a lot of money on the line. How do you know? You've practiced at home with fake money and after thousands of hands, you've convinced yourself. Before practicing, it is a good idea to know every single rule from a local casino so that you can practice correctly. For that, I would suggest a little recreational betting to get a feel for it. But even then, I think you should already know absolutely perfect BS.

 

[BJinNJ]

You will Know when you're ready...

if you don't know, you're not ready.

There are several milestones that are accepted as indications that
you're ready:

1) count down a deck in 30 seconds or less, with loud distractions near
2) consistently make NO Basic Strategy errors filling in a BS grid.

It's also nice to have
1) have an appropriate bankroll, larger is better
2) know the betting strategy/advantage for your most available games

Some people practice a little over a long period of time, others immerse
themselves and become proficient rather quickly. The final test is in
the casino environment. The learning curve also depends on the difficulty
of the system you choose to learn.

BJinNJ

 

[RingyDingy]

update

Ok so, afte practising a stack more, and im still around the 30 second mark for counting a deck, (the fastest has been 27 seconds, but most hover around the 30 sec mark) I headed down to my local joint and gave it a go.

And well what can i say, but variance stole my milk money.

Simply put, even when the count was high TC +3 near the end of the shoe, i was +4 betting, and didnt win a hand, the dealer was pulling all sorts of baloney. so for the day i was down 300.

So my noob bankroll is now down to about 125 bucks or there abouts.

I really didnt have any luck whatsoever, i wonged out a couple of times (which is very hard at my casino as its really hard to get a seat half the time)

I guess more importantly out of this excercise, did i improve my card counting ability? well i guess i say yes, as all the practise helps, i lost it a few times, but was close enough to the mark.

So this weekend is a busy one again and i wont get any casino time, which is probably a good thing, as i need more practise.

cheers

Ringy.

 

[RingyDingy]

Update

Okey dokey, Update time:

Well what an interesting last two trips, firstly ive lost my noob starting bankroll, and whilst im not sad or dissapointed, its good for me in a way, its shown the variations that can occur, and that even when following the BS rules, and even including some I18 sometimes the dealer just whips your ass.

Some good:
I got comped a couple of meals, and got freindly with a couple of pit bosses, which i think is quite valuable, and im now on first name terms with two of them, one of which gave me the meal comp when i sure as heck wasnt entitled to it.

Ive also got my count down to around the 26 second mark (thats about as fast as i can flip the cards, hehe )

Ive had to "reverse the count" making the small cards negatives and the big cards positive, it was totally doing my head in the other way, and this really does seem to have had a good effect.

Im keeping a better count and im certainly not losing it very often now.

Some Bad:
I caught myself after a hand not following BS, even though i won the hand, this makes me believe that at least a couple of times i havent been doing what im supposed to, and playing such a crappy game that my casino offers, its only going to take a small slip up on my part to lose my edge.

Some Ugly:
Saw a guy get rolled, wasnt on my table but the table next to me, i never saw what happend but only the aftermath, two guys, one a heavy the other some sort of Pit monster, dont know what they said to him but he didnt like it and the heavy had to take him outside quite forcefully. created quite the ruccus, i have no idea if he was counting or just being a general asshole.

Conclusions:
Study, study and more study. thats what i need to do, i also need to plan a trip or two to a place where i can play some better games, because frankly, this one sucks nuts, i just have no other options.

It would be sweet to have a few counting buddies, i can only imagine the increased learning potential of bouncing off others.

 

[rukus]

Ive had to "reverse the count" making the small cards negatives and the big cards positive, it was totally doing my head in the other way, and this really does seem to have had a good effect.

This may not need to be said, but just make sure you modify your indices accordingly for this!

would be pretty funny if you didn't...

Some Ugly:
... created quite the ruccus, i have no idea if he was counting or just being a general asshole.

It wasn't me, honest! :

Ps - we both spelled "ruckus" incorrectly, though I spelled my handle like I did on purpose

 

[RingyDingy]

Click, what a sound!

Ok, here it is, imagine this:

A light bulb turning on, a sharp Click sound, the sound of a penny dropping on the ground.

Yes it finally happend, it just seemed to happen, without thinking about it.....

Gosh i cant believe it, i was just doing it, its been such hard work, but for the first time, it just seemed to feel right. and the result showed.

+60 units , ive never held a $500 chip in my life before, but when i got it, and looked at it, studied it, i had the most incredible feeling, it is really beyond words.

now lets go back in time a bit.

Ok so i basically tapped out my noob bankroll last week, which was $500 so i basically decided that if i really wanted to be half decent and watching my ROR i need a decent bankroll, so ive given myself $2500 and ill be honest if i lose that, i think it well be the end of my card counting career.

Now with $500 from my new bankroll in hand, i venture down to the local haunt, having taken the day off work i was in at a time when im normally not there, and they have about half the tables open that they normally do, and they are running this interesting scam of a side bet of pairs. total crap, but what it does do, is slows down the deal enough for me to be 100% right on the inital flopcount whicle he collects others chips, a good 10-15 seconds.

A large group of (i think chinese guys - hell of a nice lot of guys, they were all having so much fun.) were going crazy over the pairs rubbish, so it really was good for me, also they were placing all sorts of rubbish bets and in huge chip quantities, really masking what i was doing. Anyways, the count in the first couple of shows hovers pretty much around neutral, and so did my bank, until about an hour and a half in the count went ballistic near the end of the shoe, it was TC +6 one of the first times it has ever gotten this high for me, and for the first time i was betting 50 and 60 dollars a hand, which for me was a big thing, i won a couple and lost one, but the last hand i got a pair of nines (the commotion in chinese champ, how i got a pair of nines and they didnt, was the most brilliant cover i could ask for, as i looked at them quizzically trying to say, hey its not my fault) verses a dealer 7, split them and got pictures on both, with 60 on each, and the dealer pictures, for a win to me of like 120 bucks in a single hand, a new PB for me!

anyways, it was time for a lunch break, i took the comped meal and sat back for a while, then played again for about an hour or so, and whilst the count was OKish +2 and +3 it never got to what it was like before, but i pulled a good few 20's and was doing well. Anyways i then cashed out, and i got this purple chip, which as a total noob gave me the biggest thrill, i thought, YES! this is what its about!

So basically im now +600 with my bankroll at $3100 having written of my 500 noob start.

When i got back to my car i was literally shaking, thinking holy sh*t i cant believe it. Now looking back analytically, several good things happend.

1. The cover, with the Chinese fun party going on, and like all eyes on them, i didnt need to worry about cover.
2. The side betting game on the table helped my counting immensly.
3. The larger bankroll means i could afford to bet larger spreads, which i wouldnt have risked with my noob start.
4. Practising, its actually really starting to help a lot, i can count pairs easy now, and know the whole cancel each other out thing

So guys, im on cloud nine right now, and i wont go back unitl early next week at this stage, but man im so happy, not for the money, which is the scorecard, but the fact that all the practising im doing actually is working.

I can only imagine what its like for you guys who have decent BJ games to play on, not the rubbish i am forced to play on.

as always thanks for all your help and advice

 

[RingyDingy]

oh i forgot

whoops i nearly forgot.

There was two dealer mistakes, where he didnt take my money when he beat me, id suggest because of the Chinese guys all laughing and carrying on. This is the first time ive ever had a dealer error in my favour, so no complaints from me.

 

[Sonny]

...the last hand i got a pair of nines...verses a dealer 7, split them and got pictures on both

You split a pair of nines vs. 7? I hope the count was high enough to justify that BS departure.

-Sonny-

 

[sagefr0g]

......Ok so i basically tapped out my noob bankroll last week, which was $500 so i basically decided that if i really wanted to be half decent and watching my ROR i need a decent bankroll, so ive given myself $2500 and ill be honest if i lose that, i think it well be the end of my card counting career.

.........
A large group of (i think chinese guys - hell of a nice lot of guys, they were all having so much fun.) were going crazy over the pairs rubbish, so it really was good for me, also they were placing all sorts of rubbish bets and in huge chip quantities, really masking what i was doing. Anyways, the count in the first couple of shows hovers pretty much around neutral, and so did my bank, until about an hour and a half in the count went ballistic near the end of the shoe, it was TC +6 one of the first times it has ever gotten this high for me, and for the first time i was betting 50 and 60 dollars a hand, which for me was a big thing, i won a couple and lost one, but the last hand i got a pair of nines (the commotion in chinese champ, how i got a pair of nines and they didnt, was the most brilliant cover i could ask for, as i looked at them quizzically trying to say, hey its not my fault) verses a dealer 7, split them and got pictures on both, with 60 on each, and the dealer pictures, for a win to me of like 120 bucks in a single hand, a new PB for me!
..................
1. The cover, with the Chinese fun party going on, and like all eyes on them, i didnt need to worry about cover.
2. The side betting game on the table helped my counting immensly.
......

just a few observations. not sure what the min bet is on these tables. i'm guessing $5 or $10 but your betting as high as $60 . so still that $2,500 roll if it's a lifetime roll is at a 'substantial' risk.

also you split 9's where the dealer had a 7 upcard. tc = 6 . so hopefully that was a indice play decision split at tc>=3 i think. your using indices right? other wise basic strategy would have been to stand. this is a DAS game right? s17 eight decks?

on the other players making the sucker bets it does slow things down and helps one to count but it can also drag things out when you get a long stretch of crap counts. also i sometimes get an uneasy feeling when i'm sitting there not making the side bet and everyone else is. sort of makes you stand out maybe. i dunno.

so but good you had a good session.

 

[RingyDingy]

also you split 9's where the dealer had a 7 upcard. tc = 6 . so hopefully that was a indice play decision split at tc>=3 i think. your using indices right? other wise basic strategy would have been to stand. this is a DAS game right? s17 eight decks?

on the other players making the sucker bets it does slow things down and helps one to count but it can also drag things out when you get a long stretch of crap counts. also i sometimes get an uneasy feeling when i'm sitting there not making the side bet and everyone else is. sort of makes you stand out maybe. i dunno.

so but good you had a good session.

RUH ROH shaggy, well i have basically a few indicies that i use, but as far as they are concerned, they are far, far ,far from memorised, and the 9's over the 7 was from memory a correct play at tc +6, but it probably isnt, i dont use flashcards at the casino, but i wonder if i should keep some in my pocket just in case? for the big time decisions?

As for the second bit, well the pairs game which is really silly means that anyone can bet on anyone else's pairs not just the guy who is controlling the box, so i had a couple of the chinese guys 5 bucking my pairs, so i didnt really stand out.

the table minimum is 10 bucks. DAS, dealer hits on soft 17, 8 Decks and approx 2 deck pen.

 

[RingyDingy]

update

Ok, had a 2 hour session yesterday +10 units or +100 bucks, which was quite good, only once though in the whole two hours did the TC go +4, when i had mixed results.

Im wondering, is there some info, or some of you guys expert knowledge, that say on average how often, say per hour the count gets above say +2, or is that totally subjective?

cheers

Ringy
PS got freindly/flirty with a female pit critter, too freindly in fact, had to remind myself that i must be careful.

 

[Sonny]

Im wondering, is there some info, or some of you guys expert knowledge, that say on average how often, say per hour the count gets above say +2, or is that totally subjective?

It depends on the penetration. The deeper they deal, the more positive counts you will see. Here is a general guide:

http://www.blackjackincolor.com/truecount1.htm

There are more specific numbers for different games (various rules, penetration, etc.) in Schlesinger's Blackjack Attack or Snyder's Beat The x-Deck Game series. You can use a simulator if you need exact numbers for a very specific game.

-Sonny-

 

[EasyRhino]

PS got freindly/flirty with a female pit critter, too freindly in fact, had to remind myself that i must be careful.

Go with guts!

 

[RingyDingy]

update

Ok, further update, and last one for a few weeks, as i have to go to India for work not looking forward to it at all.

Ok so hit the usual shack with two goals in mind, one to take another lot of units, and also to talk to the pit critteress with the hot tush.

Result, Failed on both counts.

Only once did i get a half decent count at +3.5 and the dealer gobbled my hands up like no tomorrow, including 3 blackjacks from 4 hands. and ended up cutting my losses at -250 bucks.

As for the critteress, well there was flirting a plenty again, (perhaps thats just part of the job) and sitting at 1st base i had the perfect spot for quite a few chats, and managed to, wait for it, asked her if she wanted to grab a coffee sometime, to which she replied "id love to but we have a no fraternisation policy".

Now i dunno if thats a load of crap or not, but i guess i can take a blow off when i see one, but as she bosses the shift when i ususally play ill be a nice boy and keep the flirting going, got nothing to lose i guess.

So overall result is Bankroll at $1250 and Girls 0/2

anyways see you guys again in a couple of weeks, ill be back more practised than ever before, im taking 8 decks with me for some serious practise

cheers

Ringy.