Noob Experience.

[RingyDingy]

back home!

Well after a trip overseas for work where there was ZERO action, i headed back to my local haunt.

had a great time and won $270. which was great, was good to get a win right off the bat.

Didnt see the pit critteress though, but i kinda forgot about her until i got back to the casino.

Whilst i was stuck in India, i got in quite a lot of practise and can pretty much count a deck as fast as i can sort through cards now, ive also gotten into the habit of visualising the number as opposed to counting it out in my head, i think this has probably helped me the most after reversing the count. (as in pictures are + and lil ones are -)

anyways its great to be home, my stomach thanked me a billion times for the steak last night

 

[RingyDingy]

update

Wow, a great night, and then reality bites.

first off i was doing poorly, down $200, i guess call it "variance" but walked away with +$315.

now here is what i was thinking on the way home, basically this cannot be because of my skills, it pretty much has to be plain and simple variance, the rules of my game are so crappy, and add the "im a noob" factor in, and surely there is no way that i can attribute my recent good winnings to Skill.

It has to be plain and simple variance, i mean after all guys that have no idea about counting or even BS, walk into casino's and win the same amount of money that i have.

So call it the penny dropping, or the alarm bell sounding, perhaps plain and simple, its just dumb ol luck?

Cheers

Ringy.

 

[sagefr0g]

Wow, a great night, and then reality bites.

first off i was doing poorly, down $200, i guess call it "variance" but walked away with +$315.

now here is what i was thinking on the way home, basically this cannot be because of my skills, it pretty much has to be plain and simple variance, the rules of my game are so crappy, and add the "im a noob" factor in, and surely there is no way that i can attribute my recent good winnings to Skill.

It has to be plain and simple variance, i mean after all guys that have no idea about counting or even BS, walk into casino's and win the same amount of money that i have.

So call it the penny dropping, or the alarm bell sounding, perhaps plain and simple, its just dumb ol luck?

Cheers

Ringy.

hey Ringy Dingy read through the weekend warriors posts a bit. there's a lot in there about variance and luck.

 

[EasyRhino]

now here is what i was thinking on the way home, basically this cannot be because of my skills, it pretty much has to be plain and simple variance, the rules of my game are so crappy, and add the "im a noob" factor in, and surely there is no way that i can attribute my recent good winnings to Skill.

This is a very useful epiphany to have. Because it's true. I looked back through my 'blog' here, and was struck at how nervous I got during winning streaks. But you know what? Those nerves are way better than the losing streaks!

Which is why it's important, if you're unsure about your odds, to make sure that you're playing a game with a legit advantage. On the skill side, you can test yourself, and on the strategy, bankroll, and betting, side, you've got to spend time with sims, CVCX, or comparing numbers against a resource like Blackjack Attack.

If after all that, you find you're playing with a significant advantage with an acceptable risk of ruin, then good job, stay the course.

If you find out that's not the case, then congratulations on getting lucky.

 

[RingyDingy]

running the numbers....

ok back again,

did any of you see the old simpsons episode where Monty burns has the baseball team, he pretty much has the cream all star team, where darryl strawberry hits like 20 home runs, then with the game deadlocked he substitutes darryl in for homer, and says to strawberry, "im playing the numbers"

thats exactly what i thought of when i went in last night, just playing the numbers, and i think ive become a robot.

i can run the following:

Counting.exe
Bstrat.exe
idlechat.exe
actlikeaploppy.exe
forgetthecountbecauseimlookingatsometits.exe (wont work on old dos machines)

So last night, i had a 4 hour session, ran all the above programs, was up a lot, then was down a lot and walked away with the princly sum of $65 bucks, yay me!

so after the last month my bankroll is looking pretty sweet, ive got a few good comps, and my counting happens without thinking about it. But in reference to the wisest guys above, the game im playing stinks, and i mean stinks bad, where my advantage is so minor its nothing but pure variance/luck thats getting me where i have got.

Now i live in a town that really has ZERO other options, so im kinda in a pickle. perhaps i need to save up for a trip to vegas

Anyways im heading back again tonight, im going to play some green chips for the first time.

cheers


Ringy

 

[zengrifter]

im going to play some green chips for the first time.

We nkew him when. zg

 

[RingyDingy]

latest and greatest

Add a new program to me the robot its called dumbluck.exe

So first thing is first, green chips, i flagrantly did some backcounting, the best part about the green chipping is that there is plenty of green chip tables available, and a great opportunity to wong in and wong out, whereas the red chippers $10 and $15 are usually very crowded.

So i wonged in on a good count, and played about 10 hands winning 7 of them at that point the count went south, so i wonged out.

here is the killer and the bit im in awe of you guys, no kidding i spent around 2 hours backcounting a couple of tables, and i even tried to do two at once - and failed. How do you guys do it? how do you back count for so long? is it that you backcount on the bigger value tables to get a higher payoff? or?
in my backcounting the count on all of them was not very good, well not good enough to wong in on, so i sat down and played out another hour on a $15 table.

I ended up + $305 which took my bankroll past the 2k mark, which considering where ive come from is pretty neat, im going to withdraw $500 from the bankroll over the weekend to pay for some new clothes n stuff, or as i was calling it my "leisure suit larry outfit "

So its time for me to seriously put some thought into a trip to vegas, or another big casino spot, and no doubt ill be asking you guys for advice as the best place to go and stay etc etc.

cheers

Ringy

 

[RingyDingy]

Game over

Well it happened, I got the dreaded “tap on the shoulder”

Let me digress:

I was playing a $15 table for about 2 hours where the count went absolutely nowhere, so I was treading water (I think I was down about 100 bucks or there abouts, when finally I got an ok count TC +3 with only a few hands left.

So I ramped up to 5 units, hey presto go a pair of 9’s vs a dealer 6, and boy I felt good, split them got a pair of 19’s and sure enough he dealer went bust, so I squirreled away a few chips.
Next hand pulled in a blackjack with +5 units again, and then thirdly and finally before the shuffle, had one of those scary moments in BS where BS says to do one thing but that evil little alien inside you says to do another, but I stayed true and did as BS says. I had a pair of 3’s versus a dealer 7. this one is one where I really had to think long and hard about, but split the threes, got an eight on one, so doubled and got a 6 for a total of 17, got a picture on the other, hit and got a 6, for a 19, and was looking ok.

Sure enough dealer pulls a 9 then a picture for a bust! Was I ever so happy! Yay for me, so I squirreled away some more chips, finally after a wait I was getting a return.

Then the dealer shuffles up, and I lean back in the chair time to turn off my brain and behind me is some sort of manager guy, and two heavies, like im some sort of two bit criminal.

“Mr RingyDingy we would like to invite you to perhaps try some of our other games here at XXX” I was like huh, what the? I was totally lost for words, I hadn’t prepared anything to say in this situation, I totally didn’t know what to say or do I was dumbstruck, really and totally dumbstruck. My heart was racing, my brain was confused as hell, so my ever so witty reply was “What, how come?” (god I wish I could have that minute over again) to which his reply was almost a carbon copy, “perhaps you can try your luck at many of our other games, have you tried our carribbean stud poker? there is a monster jackpot this week” or there abouts, again I was still stunned, I must have looked like the biggest dickhead, anyways I hopped up the two heavies were eyeing me off, but I said thanks anyways its time I went home, the manager guy said, “that’s probably a good idea”.

So I cashed in my chips and went home, some +200 or there abouts.

Now by this stage when I got back to my car I was like totally shaking, I was petrified, thinking oh crap they will get me, etc etc, which was totally paranoid.
So I sat in my car for like 20 minutes I guess, locked the doors, thinking what was it, what had I done, why did it happen.

I was thinking, but I hadn’t won until the last few hands so it cant have been then, were they watching me? The pit bosses hardly came over to my table at all during this visit, was I doing a homer and counting out loud? What had I done? Im just a small fry playing crappy limits,was it my wonging of doom on the green chip table last visit? What was it? Was it because I was stupid enough to use my comps card? I guess I could go around for ever thinking about it, but for no avail, because now, im kaput!

So there you have it, im now slotted in my home town casino, the only one for a good distance around.

Im really pissed off to be honest, not at the casino really but at myself for being a total low stakes noob player who managed to get caught, what a dick.

So dare I say it? Game over?

Ringy

 

[squeeks]

Maybe you should take a shot at a disguise, or play on a different shift?

 

[ricopuno]

whereas the red chippers $10 and $15 are usually very crowded.

Last Sunday I won $75 by wonging I made 3 bets and every time our hands won.

The tables were full but I asked the person at the first base if i can place a bet with him and he said yes. I did this in 3 different tables which obviously is stupid because I have a feeling that I'm being watched. The only reason they have not stopped me is because I'm not aiming for a big bet.

 

[EasyRhino]

That sounds like a fairly friendly backoff, as far as these things go. It begs some questions, if you don't mind sharing:

- what kind of spread were you using in dollars?
- How did this compare to the table max?
- What was the most you saw anyone else betting?
- what color chips were you ratholing?

If you weren't getting attention from the pit, surveillance was probably clocking your game.

 

[ricopuno]

That sounds like a fairly friendly backoff, as far as these things go. It begs some questions, if you don't mind sharing:

- what kind of spread were you using in dollars?
- How did this compare to the table max?
- What was the most you saw anyone else betting?
- what color chips were you ratholing?

If you weren't getting attention from the pit, surveillance was probably clocking your game.

I don't know if you are referring to me. I was playing on a table where the min. bet is $25 but for me that was already a spread from 1-5 because I normally play on $5 a dollar table. People at that time were betting the min. because the dealer got 3 blackjacks in 2 shoes.

 

[RingyDingy]

intel or lack thereof

I was on the $15 table, which i normally play or the $10 table (they are pretty much the minimums, dependant upon the time of the day) although a few days before i played my first green chipper, for a very short period (after a huge wong in).

spreads up to x6, with a lot of people betting anywhere from the minimum up to about 75-100.

Ive had a lot of time to think about it, and to be honest im not sure where i really went wrong, i think and its just a hunch that it was my wonging on the $25 table, where these tables are is quiet and the critters dont have a lot else to do but watch us, so far im leaning towards that, because apart from the last 3-5 hands before i go the elbow, i was pretty much flat betting while the count was neutral(ish) so they had to be onto me before that.

As for a disguise or whatever, well the game i play has such a poor return is it really orth me going to all that trouble? i dont think so. What im going to do is take a week off, and go back during a different shift, and not use my card (obviously) which is another downer, no more comps :/

How have you guys, the pro's handled the push backs?

cheers


Ringy.

 

[RingyDingy]

more info

the table max is $500, so im nowhere near that.

And i was ratholing greens, but again that was at the end, and they were already ready to turf me IMHO.

 

[callipygian]

my ever so witty reply was “What, how come?” (god I wish I could have that minute over again)

That's a perfect response. The more honestly confused you are, the less confused you need to pretend. Any sort of snappy comeback or witty remark is just going to make it look like you've been through this before (and validate whatever information they have on you).

The last thing you want to do is to confirm their suspicions because your ego couldn't resist the parting shot. Things like, "what took you so long to catch on" just move you from the "probably AP" column to the "definitely AP" in their black book.

If you ever go back, or want to go back, you want to leave ambiguity in the process. As they watch you walk away, you want them to have some doubt as to whether they did the right thing.

Game over?

If you weren't told that you'd be trespassing if you came back, the game's not over. But you'll become made quicker and quicker now that you're in the system.

 

[bj bob]

I was on the $15 table, which i normally play or the $10 table (they are pretty much the minimums, dependant upon the time of the day) although a few days before i played my first green chipper, for a very short period (after a huge wong in).

spreads up to x6, with a lot of people betting anywhere from the minimum up to about 75-100.

Ive had a lot of time to think about it, and to be honest im not sure where i really went wrong,
How have you guys, the pro's handled the push backs?

It's very difficult to precisely account for your harrowing experience without having actually been there and seen you play, however, there are certain general "red flags"as Easy has alluded to which may have triggered your departure. Some of these indicators can be avoided, others cannot be. For example, if you're a young white guy that's a strike against you. The only three counter-measures for that would be: 1) Wait until you grow old ,or 2) go with a female as a couple, or 3) Get a sex and or racial change. On the other side of that coin, if you happen to be an Oriental woman you can get away with murder. Like it or not, that's the prevailing mindset of most casino executives, so live with it.
Related to your visual "persona" are your mannerisms. Although they may be difficult to break,they can be altered. I've seen some wannabe counters who are loud and boisterous who just can't keep their mouths shut. These guys make a scene just walking up to the table. Then there's the obvious "rubber necker",i.e. a guy who stares at every card as they are dealt while shifting their necks back and forth ala. centre court at Wimbledon.Lip readers are also fun to pick out, even Helen Keller could spot them at a table.
These are all aspects of inernal cover, your appearance, your mannerisms, dress etc. and are often overlooked by newbee counters, but they are very important and should be addressed just as seriously as external cover.
A further analysis of situation leads me to the following observations which, although subtle, may have in fact lead to your downfall: 1) How many hours a week do you spend playing at this location? If it's more than 10 then you've got problems, assuming it's not a major Strip casino with multiple pits and gaming areas.
2) In my personal opinion, I'm a firm believer in keeping chip colors as simple as possible on the betting circle. E.g., A player playing one green $25 chip as a minimum unit needs only to add one more green chip in his betting ramp protocol, the rest of the additions, parlays and color changes are made by the dealer herself. If you've just won a $50 bet, the dealer will simply add two green chips and, if the count dictates, you parlay that four chip stack the dealer will oftentimes pay you in black if you win again. These are all of her physical actions, not yours. Following that logic, I find playing a $15 unit much more awkward than a $10 since even only two units call for a color (green/red) change at a $15/ unit.
3) The last aspect of your behavior which may have tipped them off was your move to the $25 table. Simply put, the higher the table min. the more intense the heat and the associated scrutiny of $25 chips "dissappearing" from the pits. Remember, if your projected EV is $25/ hr you need only to rathole 6-7 RED chips / hr regardless if your session was a winning one or not, since you're playing the long term averages.
Moral here. If this is your local joint it's gonna be a good long while until can return "clean". In other words, you burned it out.

 

[RingyDingy]

good news and bad news

Ok ill start with the bad news:, oh wait there is no good news damn it!

im a 35 Yr old, slighly overwieight white balding guy.........

Which pretty much makes me the perfect card counter to watch out for right?
I normally stop by the casino after work, so im well dressed, i.e pants, shirt W or W/O tie on, and i look like i have had a hard day at the office (which i usually have)

The casino is quite big so i do mix around what places i do bet, but sometimes if im minimum tabling they only have the one area for that.

I play maybe 2 or 3 times a week at most, for ususally a 1-4 hour stint, depending on how im doing.

obviously now i cant use the comps card, and with an already low EV on the house rules, ive pretty much determined that its pretty close to game over.

Im going to give it another week, then im going to go in looking like a ploppy, jeans t shirt, baseball cap etc, and see how i go there perhaps this week ill grow a goatee or something as well, if anything would be good for a laugh.

Cheers

Ringy

 

[ricopuno]

Im going to give it another week, then im going to go in looking like a ploppy, jeans t shirt, baseball cap etc, and see how i go there perhaps this week ill grow a goatee or something as well, if anything would be good for a laugh.

I don't think you can last for a week. Your hands might start to itch uncontrollably before the week is over. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::devil::devil::devil::cool2::cool2:

 

[RingyDingy]

Well i guess i could go for the stupid disguise and wear some david copperfield pants?

practising at home is nearly just as good, and i sure dont have to worry about losing the count

I think im going to plan a trip to vegas, is there some sort of secret meeting place or handshake i need to know to get into the card counters cave?

 

[bj bob]

I think im going to plan a trip to vegas, is there some sort of secret meeting place or handshake i need to know to get into the card counters cave?

Zg sells secret decoder rings for $49.99+tax. Operators are standing by.