Original Zen Vs Hi-opt2(no ace SC)

[jack.jackson]

The first set of sims, will be as follows:

2D,H17,DAS

1plyr,1:6,66%

Illustrious 18

Optimal Bet spreads, will be taken from CVCX.

Results will be posted shortly

 

[zengrifter]

I think the full HO2 indices are over 160? Could that explain why HO2-WOASC out performed "full" ZEN with 40? zg

 

[jack.jackson]

It makes a difference zen, but not enough to overcome.

I even ran pre-sims, for optimal betting ramps. Since there were no

canned sims, for I18 only. Which are follows

Zen
+2/20
+3/20
+4/40
+5/50
+6/60

Ho2
+2/20
+3/30
+4/40
+5/50
+6/60

I can run some more. Name them?

 

[jack.jackson]

Having problems managing attachments

 

[Count Backula]

Zen outperforms AOII and HOII with no side counts.

Also, Zen count is almost as good as the HOII or AOII + aces.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

The first set of sims, will be as follows:

2D,H17,DAS

1plyr,1:6,66%

Illustrious 18

Optimal Bet spreads, will be taken from CVCX.

Results will be posted shortly

I think it's pretty clear, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference which level 2 count you use.

Using the brainspace you would be using for an ace sidecount for something else, like a sidecount for a sidebet, or a couple of key card sequences, is going to be worth more than the difference between HO2+A and Zen/RPC/Halves, etc. That's why I quit using it; I used the mighty HO2+A for a couple of years and it worked just great, nothing at all wrong with it, just that once I started getting into other things it was more effective to use single parameter counts plus these other things.

 

[zengrifter]

I can run some more. Name them?

So thats it? JJ are you sure the HO2 had no ASC?
I'm speechless - turns out after all these years... z:laugh:g

 

[jack.jackson]

no ace side count-positive

So thats it? JJ are you sure the HO2 had no ASC?
I'm speechless - turns out after all these years... z:laugh:g

Yup-she went down in a blaze of glory. I was rooting for ya. Hey, dont feel so bad, my last GF, was slipping xanex in my beer
so she could have an affair, before i ever found out.

We can try a different sim, if you want.

Ken has done, something to the vbullentin, that skews these pages off center. Looks stupid!

 

[zengrifter]

Yup-she went down in a blaze of glory. I was rooting for ya

I'm stunned... its surreal. z:laugh:g

 

[zengrifter]

I think it's pretty clear, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference which level 2 count you use.

Using the brainspace you would be using for an ace sidecount for something else, like a sidecount for a sidebet, or a couple of key card sequences, is going to be worth more than the difference between HO2+A and Zen/RPC/Halves, etc. That's why I quit using it; I used the mighty HO2+A for a couple of years and it worked just great, nothing at all wrong with it, just that once I started getting into other things it was more effective to use single parameter counts plus these other things.

But thats it? HO2 WOASC beats ZEN at 2D? zg(still in denial)

Ps - How did you game that previous sim that showed ZEN beat both AO2 and HO2 WITH ASC?

 

[zengrifter]

We can try a different sim, if you want.

Ya - same drill no ASC - SINGLE DECK h17 DOA 1-6 spread 63% pen

 

[jack.jackson]

Ya - same drill no ASC - SINGLE DECK h17 DOA 1-6 spread 63% pen

What about indices?

I think zen, would perform better against multiple deck. Ho2, will more than likely, pull away, even more, as the number of decks, decrease. We should try a 1-12 spread, MD.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

But thats it? HO2 WOASC beats ZEN at 2D? zg(still in denial)

Ps - How did you game that previous sim that showed ZEN beat both AO2 and HO2 WITH ASC?

Right now I'm working on a sim comparing the JSTAT count to HO2. :devil:

 

[FLASH1296]

Auto' Monk',

You never cease to amaze me.

You are going to present simmed data to show the (relative) weakness of the JSTAT count.

I am genuinely eager to see this.

I can hardly wait. :cool2:

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Auto' Monk',

You never cease to amaze me.

You are going to present simmed data to show the (relative) weakness of the JSTAT count.

I am genuinely eager to see this.

I can hardly wait. :cool2:

Here are the results:

JSTAT no side count: 52.04
JSTAT w/ ace sidecount: 57.55
JSTAT w/sidecount for betting & insurance: 57.65

Compare to:

HO2 no sidecount: 66.47
HO2 with sidecount: 71.92

Zen: 73.03

Halves: 70.44

High-Low: 61.74

 

[itrack]

The best part about those results is that Hi-lo is apparently a better count than JSTAT. Who's drinkin the casino sponsored kool-aid now :laugh: ?

 

[SleightOfHand]

Here are the results:

JSTAT no side count: 52.04
JSTAT w/ ace sidecount: 57.55
JSTAT w/sidecount for betting & insurance: 57.65

Compare to:

HO2 no sidecount: 66.47
HO2 with sidecount: 71.92

Zen: 73.03

Halves: 70.44

High-Low: 61.74

But sims don't properly reflect the game so obviously thats why its showing JSTAT to be weak

 

[itrack]

On another note, I find this information very valuable, because I was actually going to start practicing HOII for SD and DD games. Apparently zen count will do me just fine though! Like AM said, I would also rather have the brainspace to be able to take advantage of other possibilities that arrise during the round, instead of an ASC.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

But sims don't properly reflect the game so obviously thats why its showing JSTAT to be weak

There are still situations where JSTAT/Fry might be better. There are still a heck of a lot of people who use tens counts.

1. Lucky Ladies or similar sidebets with a huge EOR for 10's

2. If you have an opportunity (and the courage!) to insure the hands of whales, the perfect IC of a tens count used properly is valuable.

3. If you are playing at low table limits with a large bankroll, and thus the biggest question you have is not "How much should I bet with this advantage?" but "Should I take insurance if the dealer shows an ace?"

For most people/situations, no, almost anything else would be better.

 

[FLASH1296]

I am still reeling from these dramatic results.
I have faith/respect/admiration for Automatic Monkey,
so I cannot easily dismiss his sim' reslts.

I have been using ZEN for shoe games and
Hi-Opt II for "pitch" games for many years.

Lending an extra degree of credence to the results
it the other counts being what about I expected.
L.O.L. Why question what I already believe ! L.O.L. . . . :laugh:

I will now convert to a ZEN COUNT-ONLY dude.