PA. casino review

[blackchipjim]

The heat is on!

I played yesterday at a northern PA store and was amazed at the nervous pit critters. Played three different tables two of which had some real rubes there. I know new stores with new games draws them out of the woodwork but the youngsters were too much for me. I finally settled at an open table heads up with the dealer for two shoes and got them good. It didn't take long before three of the buzzards were standing around the dealer and staring me down. Too bad I kicked their butt and left I'll have to see if they let me play again next time. ( To genius007: counter trap tables are the ones that are not csm with hand dealt shoes, low to mid min on tables. The watch your play alot more closely then you think.)

 

[blackchipjim]

Presque Isle Insurance

Has anyone experienced this before? Dealer has an ace showing and you have a blackjack. Dealer asks for insurance but you can't take even money you have to put out the insurance bet to get it back? They won't give you even money yet! This is about the wierdest thing that I've come across in the years I've played.

 

[Sharky]

are you sure you weren't tricked there, Jim?

insurance is you get your insurance back and your original bet so you didn't win, or lose anything.

are you saying that they give you your insurance back, your original bet plus even money? If so, I never saw that either, even though that payout would be correct. Weird, was that in PA?

Edit: what happens if the dealer doesn't have it? Ans: The same should, you get your ins., bet + even? That is even stranger.

 

[aslan]

are you sure you weren't tricked there, Jim?

insurance is you get your insurance back and your original bet so you didn't win, or lose anything.

are you saying that they give you your insurance back, your original bet plus even money? If so, I never saw that either, even though that payout would be correct. Weird, was that in PA?

Edit: what happens if the dealer doesn't have it? Ans: The same should, you get your ins., bet + even? That is even stranger.

No, I think the dealer takes your insurance, then you get paid for your blackjack 3:2, which in effect is even money. If the dealer does have blackjack, you lose your bet, but get your 2:1 insurance bet making you break even. Correct me if I'm wrong.

More intriguing yet is what do they do in a 6:5 game? Do they take your insurance money, then only pay you 6:5? That would not be even money. But I'm sure they're worked it out wherever they don't offer "even money" to make the customer break even--or have they?

And the reason for the even money differences from place to place is state law. A casino must obtain approval from the gaming commission to give an offer of even money for a player blackjack. Without that, the only recourse they have is the insurance route.

 

[Sharky]

...If the dealer does have blackjack, you lose your bet,... Correct me if I'm wrong. ...

that's wrong...if you have a BJ, as he stated, worst case is a push and if you take even money it doesn't matter what the dealer has you get even money.

 

[devils4ever]

I was also there Sunday late afternoon thru the evening just observing. I'm not sure if any1 said, all their bj tables were ASM. Smoking region had about 8 tables open (3 at $15; rest at $25; and all had spots taken). There was a pit of 6 tables not open. Non-smoking area had like 4 tables (all $15, and no empty seats, with people behind waiting). Another 6 tables not open. The High limit area had 1or 2 open with $100 min (1 table next baccarat had 3 guys, 4 spots used; middle guy with fat watch had ova 5000 black chips in 500-piles; and 1st base had purples and blacks). There, too, had 6 tables not open. I left without spending a penny at PA Sands. I tried to take a picture of the empty tables and floor; but 2 bored? suitmen blocked my view and said no pics or cameras. I told them I was taking pic of the empty tables where I could have been playing, and then left. Edit: The # tables I saw seem much less than the # tables PA Sands proposed to PGCB. Where am i missing? Is Mohegan Downs Poconos any better (or simlar to Mohegan Sun in CT)?

Are ASMs necessarily bad? I know CSMs are bad.

 

[aslan]

that's wrong...if you have a BJ, as he stated, worst case is a push and if you take even money it doesn't matter what the dealer has you get even money.

No, I'm saying if you do not have a blackjack and the dealer does have a blackjack, you win the insurance bet and you lose the hand, resulting in a break even. I should have added to "if the dealer does have a blackjack," ...AND YOU DON'T.

In the preceding sentence I stated the case where you DO have a blackjack and the dealer does not:

"...the dealer takes your insurance, then you get paid for your blackjack 3:2, which in effect is even money."
​

I was trying to show how taking insurance (when break even is not offered) works in both cases, that is, when both you and the dealer have a blackjack (even money overall), and when you do not have a blackjack, but the dealer does (break even). I guess the second part need not be stated since it does not differ from normal procedures anyway. There is a third case where the dealer does not have a blackjack and you do have a blackjack; in this case, you lose the insurance bet, and you win the hand at 3:2 (break even overall). In this third scenario, if you hadn't taken insurance, you would have won one and a half times your original bet.

 

[blackchipjim]

actually

Yes it was in Pa and no I have never ran into this before. The dealer stated this was just for now that you can't take even money on your bj? I was wasn't the person it happend to but decided to keep quiet as not to draw atttention to myself.Weird yes but in Pa. alot of things are weird and not all of them in casinos.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

...More intriguing yet is what do they do in a 6:5 game? Do they take your insurance money, then only pay you 6:5? That would not be even money. But I'm sure they're worked it out wherever they don't offer "even money" to make the customer break even--or have they? ...

In a 6:5 game sometimes you can talk an inexperienced dealer into giving you "even money," but of course that's not the rule. They are supposed to treat insurance just like a sidebet, which is exactly what it is of course, and they usually do.

Stupid casinos. They stand to lose far more by educating their "best" customers that insurance is just a sidebet that has nothing to do with the value of their hand, then by just paying even money to a natural against an ace. Especially in a SD game where that situation is less likely than in shoe.

 

[BookerPA]

While playing at the MS, I was informed by one of the PB's that if you ask for even money, they will pay it; however, the dealers will not offer even money.

With regard to 6:5, PA gaming regulations do not allow a 6:5 payout in BJ; games must by 3:2, Insurance, S17, DAS and LS.

As an aside regarding surveillance, enforcement, etc., the following article appeared this morning in the local papers:

"Men charged with cheating at casino"

http://thetimes-tribune.com/men-charged-with-cheating-at-casino-1.942814

 

[Sharky]

now that is ballzy...not to mention pretty stupid.

no need to cheat, learn AP.:whip:

 

[Albee]

Erie casino - BJ and insurance

Yes that is correct how Aslan described it. I have been there 3-times to many and have personally had that happen.

Not a store I choose to play in anymore.....last night was a train wreck. People, err, ploppies....high minimums and thee most terrible pen I have seen since the Turning Stone.

Meadows get a fair score and Rivers get's a pretty good score. Sands....forget about them.

Mt Airy.....less then fair.....The one near Scranton.....get's a good score too.

 

[Sharky]

Has anyone experienced this before? Dealer has an ace showing and you have a blackjack.

this was the situation described

No, I think the dealer takes your insurance, then you get paid for your blackjack 3:2, which in effect is even money. If the dealer does have blackjack, you lose your bet, but get your 2:1 insurance bet making you break even. Correct me if I'm wrong...

that is incorrect, regardless of how insurance is handled

 

[aslan]

this was the situation described



that is incorrect, regardless of how insurance is handled

We're talking about stores where they do not offer even money, but they do allow you to take insurance. If you think this is incorrect, you might try explaining why.

 

[Sharky]

It's simple, you NEVER lose your bet when you have a BJ, regardless of how insurance is handled, or if you even took insurance.

 

[blackchipjim]

insurance

If you can't take even money on a bj and don't get paid it's a push.I don't think the player should have to put up an insurance bet on a bj and I further don't think the Pa gaming commision would think so either. I'm not going to report it but I don't think that's the way it's suppose to work.

 

[aslan]

It's simple, you NEVER lose your bet when you have a BJ, regardless of how insurance is handled, or if you even took insurance.

But you also NEVER get "even money" if you don't take insurance in a store that does not offer even money, this being the point of taking insurance when you want even money.

 

[BookerPA]

Playing last night at MS, two hands, +6 count, $400, dealer has Ace, asked for even money and was paid, no questions asked. Dealer had 17.

And now for disaster, playing two hands, $400 on each, count is +2 because of two new players who jumped in and had stiff 20's, $400 on each hand, dealer showing 6. First hand, two 8's, split and had 17 on both and 14 on second hand. New players proceed to split 20's and first one pulls another ten and splits that also and ends up with 19, 19 and 21. Second player splits his tens and finishes with 20 and 19. Dealer turns hole card, 16 and pulls 5. Cost me $1200, plus I had to pay for the glass I swallowed.:flame:

 

[aslan]

Playing last night at MS, two hands, +6 count, $400, dealer has Ace, asked for even money and was paid, no questions asked. Dealer had 17.

And now for disaster, playing two hands, $400 on each, count is +2 because of two new players who jumped in and had stiff 20's, $400 on each hand, dealer showing 6. First hand, two 8's, split and had 17 on both and 14 on second hand. New players proceed to split 20's and first one pulls another ten and splits that also and ends up with 19, 19 and 21. Second player splits his tens and finishes with 20 and 19. Dealer turns hole card, 16 and pulls 5. Cost me $1200, plus I had to pay for the glass I swallowed.:flame:

Booker! What a nightmare!

 

[blackchipjim]

slammed

Sorry to hear about that bookerpa sounds like you had the same jerk meats that were at another place I was at the fornite. Youngsters seem to be wetting their feet in these places and making some of the most untimely plays that hurt the most. It's not that splitting tens in a high count is bad, it's just the way it turned out for you that hurt.:cry: