Pitboss accusation, 1st time. Need advice!!

Q

Qdini

Member
Hi,

I just recently got heat from a pitboss at a casino
in Santa Barbara. Me and my friends went out yesterday and played
together (Both of them beginners) and basically what happened was this.
I was not playing myself and was sitting next to a friend and coaching
him how to play. The 3rd friend was copying his betting strategy exactly.
So whenever 2nd person sat out a hand, the 3rd did the same (okay I admit
it's pretty stupid to advise hopping hands....but hey, I learn from my mistakes)
Result? The lady dealer got royally pissed I guess because in her
mind, we were probably pissing off the other players and that would
cost her her TIPS. So she decided to call over the pitboss and
told him that we were hopping in and out of hands and how I was just
sitting there coaching my friend and taking up all the table space
so that other people couldn't join in and play. The pitboss
basically said, "you know that you guys are stealing money out of
the casino right? And card counting IS illegal...". Seeing as to
how this is my first time experience where I've been accused of this
bullshit, I blurted out that "Well what were doing (hopping in and
out of hands) isn't illegal right? I mean I've seen people do it
all the time here. I'm just waiting for the good cards to come.
When I feel and unlucky streak going, I stay out". Pitboss repeats,
"But what your doing is basically stealing from the casino. Thats
what card counting is.." I didn't really respond to his accusation
and I said, "But hey (turned to lady dealer) if you want more space and don't like us here, we'll go to another table...." Pitboss didn't say a word and went back to whatever he was doing. Question is that 1) how I should have handled it? 2) Should I have directly responded to the pitboss accusation? 3) Did I handle the situation incorrectly and is there's something better
I could have done?... Thnx in advance for advice!

Regards,
Qdini
 
L

learning to count

Well-Known Member
Whoa there Hombre calm down. I know how you feel. First of all remember the old saying you draw more flies with stinky dog crap. If you are aspiring to be a counter then remember; Learn what causes heat, dont create heat; avoid heat; leave on a positive note.

People remember discomfort and annoyance rather than a happy encounter. Sorry to sound so gushy but the dealer and PB will remember the young upstarts and thier attempt to "steal" from the casino. Listen the casino worker culture is very protective of one thing..."thier greed".

You reacted on emotion. An advantage player has to be "COLD". A counter has to also be a chameleon. You have to see what comes at you and act accordingly. If you react with heat you will get fire. Face it the casinos have been given a free hand in how they run thier business.

What you did is what you did. You can't change what happned now. What does not kill us makes us strong. Learn from this incident and figure out a better way to lessen the problem from getting out of hand. This was more evidence that many casino workers are trained monkeys and wouldnt know a counter from a lucky ploppy. Next time find a easier path. The dealer was a moron and the pit boss will never make it in a big casino. Take my word the big casinos are not interested in three guys learning how to play out loud. They are worried about a person who comes in and plays perfectly and wins...big money.

Early in my career I was playing a late late night game and I was actually whispering the count. The dealer heard me and started to make fun of me. He yelled all the way down the pit. "Hey we gotta pro counter here" I died inside. Not only was I in shock but I was embarassed as well. The pit boss came over and said "Is he winning". The dealer said "yeah". The pit boss retorted "How much?" "20 bucks I think" said the dealer. The pit boss came over and looked at me. I started saying "101, 102, 103, 104, 105, Come on dealer I need more cards". The pit boss cracked up and said well when he becomes a millionaire he can take us out to dinner. I played for three more hours. At best what are you going to get out of walking away. Nothing more than a life incident to add to your experience.

Now that you have experienced your first heat you need to read about how to act in a casino environment. CASINO COMPORTMENT. Read Black Jack Secrets by Stanford Wong, Beyond Counting by James Grosjean, Million Dollar Black jack by Ken Uston.

My own personal advice is to learn how to get on the dealers good side. I have been able to befreind dealers with out tipping and get the best thing you can get in any game PENETRATION. You have a good strong disposition use that anger to perfect your game and grifting abilities. The best story I have ever read is when ZG was able to convince a pit crew that he was a casino owner. What an evil move...pure genius.
 
Q

Qdini

Member
Hey Learning To Count,

Thanks for the comforting advice. You're right, its all about learning experience and avoiding the same situation next time. By the way, what should I have said to the pit boss's accusations?

~ Qdini
 
R

Rob McGarvey

Well-Known Member
Old Iron Sides

Never admit you are counting. Act the way you would if they came to tell you they don't want you playing their blazing 7's slot machines.....shocked. Comply and act like you have been mistreated, and go. You must admit you came into harbor at high noon with your pirate flags flying and your cannons wailing. No doubt they fired back. Next time come in under the cover of darkness, get right up beside them then blaze them at the water line, set your sails and be half way home before the wicked witch of the green felt table knew what hit her up side da hayed.
 
J

JR

Member
OK, I want to read the story too--the one where ZG convinced the pit crew that he was a casino owner--this has got to be good! Where is it? Thanks in advance.
 
L

learning to count

Well-Known Member
One thing you could have said is "If I was a professional then why the hell would I be playing in a dump like this"; or "Do you really think any one can count six decks"?;... or "sir my dad is frank stanton and he is a veteran Black Jack player and he told me that with the right proggession I could own the casino.

All joking aside better to back off then cause an arguement. Also if ever cornered by casino toug guys name, rank, and serial number is all you are required to give. Last court ruling I heard is that they cannot force you to produce identification. You may be asked to leave because you cannot prove you are over the age limit. Even the cops need a reason to stop you and ask you for identification. In Nevada you are requiered to have ID. Producing it by order of a law enforcement needs a little more than suspicion of winning money in a casino. They need to establish that there is suspicion of a crime. If they progress into thier investigation then they should obviously have a legitimate concern of criminal action. If they go through the routine of identifying you it is routine. Later on if something was to happen such as an arrest then they would have prove and communicate thier reasoning of why they did what they did. Bad invetigative procedure can result in bad law enforcement which could result in civil liability/civil rights complaints. Sorry to say in Vegas the police have been known to over extend thier investigative powers. Being Safe is to produce ID to Law enforcement ONLY! Casino rent a cops are not law enforcement even if they believe they are.

One other thought....it sounds like they harassed you about your wonging in and out. Strange I just played 50 plus hours and sat out numerous hands when the deck was negative. When the dealer asked if I was playing I always said "nah I got bad voodoo; cards are a dyin. I wait for shuffle. Maybe better JOU JOU!" The dealer smiled and kept dealing. If they do harrass me for not playing I get up and leave. You never mentioned that they were kicking you out. Maybe you should have said; "Sir I am sorry for my style of play and I am sorry that you percieve me as a professional card player. I will now stop playing like I was playing and I will play how you want me to". Sit down buy in play all and count your ass off. The dummy wouldnt know the difference. Make sure it is a good game first though. LTC
 
B

BradRod

Well-Known Member
Re: Post #128

I would rather have not been aware of that link. I too found the story a bit disturbing.

The casino personnel that I have encountered are as much victims of the casino establishment as are the hapless gamblers who get lured into its web. I try to treat them all with respect and dignity they deserve (of course some of them are just real ###holes in their own personal right but, that is a different matter. Certainly not true of a majority of them). They may be the tools of the casino but, in that role they are being manipulated and coerced into enforcing rules, policies, promoting deceits they have no real personal or vested interest in.

Casinos tend to be the major employer in areas with no other real prospect for economic viability. Las Vegas of course operates on a different model. Generally there is no other viable opportunity for employment of the local population. This population then is at the mercy of the casinos practices and policies. If they dont go along they go jobless. They have to put up with pressure from within the casino establishment, work in an unhealthful, carcinogen filled environment, put up with all manner of unsavory,rude and abusive clientelle. This takes place under a highly regulated, impersonal and demoralizing regime. And do it all with a smile on their face and a perpetually bright disposition.

These are workers struggling to raise a family, cover their expenses, just survive. None can hope to achieve loftier ambitions or lift themselves out of their current struggle and misery. Anyone with that capability would not be working these jobs. These are people only struggling to survive.

This labor force is another social casualty of the greed of the casino establishment. That establishment is indifferent to the feelings and personal ambitions of these virtually indentured servants. It is not damaged and is, in fact, totally indifferent to any barbs or jabs thrust at them. Those only hurt the individual and only on a personal level.

If this endeavor, of pursuing the advantage play, is a crusade for social justice then we should not use it as a vehicle for self promotion and aggrandizement at the expense of its most captive victims.
 
R

Rob McGarvey

Well-Known Member
Cover #128

"If this endeavor, of pursuing the advantage play, is a crusade for social justice then we should not use it as a vehicle for self promotion and aggrandizement at the expense of its most captive victims."

Holy jumpin! A man after my own heart. You sound like a Canadian tourist guy! Take that as a compliment. Some dealers take their job too seriously at times, and can go overboard trying to impress their PB. I work with people that are like that, and then I also work with people on "active retirement." Clock punchers. Most dealers and players are defeated victims of the 9 to 5 world like we once were....smile

Laying down some cover is one thing, but there are nice ways of doing that. Cover 128 seemed to work for the personality this counter was portraying at that time. You have to live with yourself at the end of the day, so I too would suggest a nicer method of advantage playing. I've been called a wimp before, and told that nice guys finish last. Let me tell you this:

It is always blurted by some wise guy who thinks he is a big shot winner and the only way to get there is by being mean hearted. I have found that by being kind and honest I get much farther ahead with less effort. That is what I call advantage play. We may finish last, but we finish brilliantly!
 
T

The Mayor

Well-Known Member
Do I know you? You should stop by my office some time and introduce yourself.

Obviously, when you are trying to play with an advantage you need to be a little more discrete. This is a huge understatement :cool:

--Mayor
 
A

Adam N. Subtractum

Well-Known Member
#128...best ploy I've ever heard of, hands down..

...and now that I really think about it, the funniest story I think I've ever heard. Just my opinion. If I did by chance happen to find a situation similar, I now know how to react, and would not hesitate to extract as much $$$ as possible out of the situation. It's a tough business.

ANS
 
B

BradRod

Well-Known Member
Canadian Casino Tourist

Rob,

Would you happen to know what the current policy re counters is in the provincial casinos? I seem to remember reading somewhere that casinos are not permitted to keep counters out. Or maybe it was that counting is not illegal ? Have you heard of what action if any they would take ?
 
R

Rob McGarvey

Well-Known Member
Re: Canadian Casino Tourist

The down low up here is that normally they don't turf you, but they will move the cut card up on you. This may piss you off but at that point they feel totally secure and go limp on themselves. I usually enjoy cutting out bigger chunks of negative decks and keep playing tracking the goodies and flat betting my estimated TC for that section. They get more pissed and start to limit you from playing more than one spot or backing other players hands or splitting/doubling. Then they get really lame when you change tables. But if you go to the parking lot, wet your hair down, come in the side door with a different shirt on and go to the $50 and up pit, you lose them. With casinos 2 hours away, it's easier to travel by cable to the casino to play one deck. ;>

"I love goooooooooooooooold!" Vierd eh??
 
Q

Qdini

Member
Hey Mayor,

Hehe, I don't know if it was you or not, but I think it might have been you who threatened to shut down my isp port in the on campus dorms for running a server? Maybe I have the wrong guy...cuz I remember is either Jacob Eliot or Eliot Jacob...Anyways, yes I would definitely like to meet you. Where's your office and when's your office hours?

~ Qdini
 
T

The Mayor

Well-Known Member
I don't control servers on campus, and never have been involved in such a confrontation with anyone.

I am in the CS department, look up my office in the campus directory,

Hope to see you soon,

--Mayor
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top