Player's card info

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bj21abc

Well-Known Member
Was wondering about this:

Does anyone know what additional information is collected against your player's card when playing a slot ? For example, win/loss/length of session ? Is house edge (i.e. computed according to player strategy in VP for example) or player skill also recorded ?

D.
 
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bj21abc

Well-Known Member
A VP machine is for this purpose the same as a slot - electronic gaming with a player's card. Ditto for electronic blackjack.

D.

shadroch said:
how would one determine a players skill on a slot machine?
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moo321

moo321

Well-Known Member
bj21abc said:
Was wondering about this:

Does anyone know what additional information is collected against your player's card when playing a slot ? For example, win/loss/length of session ? Is house edge (i.e. computed according to player strategy in VP for example) or player skill also recorded ?

D.
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It's probably not collected. They probably just keep track of what you played and how much coin-in/how many points. Ask Machinist.
 
David Lane

David Lane

Member
bj21abc said:
Was wondering about this:

Does anyone know what additional information is collected against your player's card when playing a slot ? For example, win/loss/length of session ? Is house edge (i.e. computed according to player strategy in VP for example) or player skill also recorded ?

D.
Click to expand...
Don't think they worry to much about skill in slots.
 
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bj21abc

Well-Known Member
:(
Let me just rephrase the question again.

Your slot club card can be inserted into machines which give you positive EV. I called them slots - let's call them machines. VP is one example.

It's very simple for the machine to evaluate your play -
Stats which could be collected include:
1. your skill level
2. your actual win/loss
3. your expected win/loss
4. your speed of play

Game protection - and marketing - would/should be interested in these.
Question is - does this data get collected and stored in your account...


D.
 
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bj21abc

Well-Known Member
Wrong.

Full-pay DW VP gives positive EV.
Many other full-pay VP give positive EV when played during certain points promotions.
Some progressive slots can reach positive EV.

These are the obvious ones, I am sure there are a ton of others I am not familiar with.

An ATM is actually negative EV (charges).

shadroch said:
There are no machines that give positive EV. The closest machine to being EV is one called an ATM.
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bj21abc

Well-Known Member
Shadroch,

I guess you've unfamiliar with machine AP.
I suggest reading Bob Dancer ("Million Dollar Video Poker") for an introduction to VP AP, plus a great read. Much of what he writes about is out of date, but the same principles still apply.

D.


shadroch said:
Are they EV + games or have they recently paid out more than they took in?
Theres a big difference.
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bj21abc

Well-Known Member
Players Card info - Bob Dancer ?

Now that I mention it, Bob Dancer does mention having been backed off VP at a couple of places - now I would assume that they got win/loss information off his player's card to make that call...

(assuming they weren't looking over his shoulder to track every single playing decision that he was making for a skill rating....)

D.
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
sabre said:
huh?
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A slot machine may pay off over 100% over a short term. That does not make it an EV+ machine. If a poker machine is set to a certain payout over a 40,000 hand cycle, but someone hits it for two Royal flushs in that span, the payout is skewed. For example, if someone were playing a hundred play machine and hit the extremely, extremley rare Royal Flush on the bottom , which resulted in 100 Royal Flushes, the month end report on that machines payout would be huge. It might have paid 200% of what it took in, but that does not make it an EV+ machine.
 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
bj21abc said:
Now that I mention it, Bob Dancer does mention having been backed off VP at a couple of places - now I would assume that they got win/loss information off his player's card to make that call...

(assuming they weren't looking over his shoulder to track every single playing decision that he was making for a skill rating....)

D.
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Wasn't this book written before most machines had players club cards? I read it years ago and it seems most of the action took place in the early to mid 90s.
 
S

sabre

Well-Known Member
shadroch said:
A slot machine may pay off over 100% over a short term. That does not make it an EV+ machine. If a poker machine is set to a certain payout over a 40,000 hand cycle, but someone hits it for two Royal flushs in that span, the payout is skewed. For example, if someone were playing a hundred play machine and hit the extremely, extremley rare Royal Flush on the bottom , which resulted in 100 Royal Flushes, the month end report on that machines payout would be huge. It might have paid 200% of what it took in, but that does not make it an EV+ machine.
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The payout percentages listed on vpfree2.com are the theoretical return of a machine with a given paytable assuming perfect play. It has nothing to do with payouts of individual machines.
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
sabre said:
The payout percentages listed on vpfree2.com are the theoretical return of a machine with a given paytable assuming perfect play. It has nothing to do with payouts of individual machines.
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Fair enough. Too many times I've seen little placards on a slot machine stating this machine paid out 99% or 100% last month, as if that has any bearing on the payout schedule.
 
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bj21abc

Well-Known Member
Nope - bear in mind that he made his million (assuming you believe the book) playing machines which were positive EV due to cashback, points and drawings. How else would you evaluate playthrough ? Also, as I recall he mentions players cards in the book.

I'm not sure why you keep posting that there are no positive EV machines.. But you know what, I agree. No machine returns more than 100%. Vpfree2.com obviously have it all wrong, fooling all us gullible suckers.

Also, remember never to sail past the horizon - you'll drop off the end of the world.

D.

shadroch said:
Wasn't this book written before most machines had players club cards? I read it years ago and it seems most of the action took place in the early to mid 90s.
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Machinist

Well-Known Member
What??? I think shad is pulling your leg bj21abc.:eek:
10/7 double bonus???? not +EV........ Full pay jokers wild?? Super Aces ??? The stuff is still out there but ya gotta look.......
Bob Dancer was a lucky duck!!! Pure and simple...he had no bad fluxuations on his way up....meaning .25cent machines to dollars and then 5 dollars machines... Also a man that was in the right place at the right time in time. He took advantage of a good thing and ran with it....
Oh yea what about the old full pay Deuces Wild machines..although i havent seen any of those in quite a few years.
Broken machines pay quite nicely sometimes..Keep your eyes open.... Progressive meters that are set wrong by mistake.... Sheep happens out there..:rolleyes:.

later guys

Machinist
 
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