zengrifter
Banned
Concur. zgshadroch said:
Players cards
- Thread starter Dopple
- Start date
Automatic Monkey
Banned
The Soft-Shoe Shuffle Hustle
One way to milk comps in a big store with computerized ratings is to come in at the last hand of the shoe with a huge bet, then leave your bet in the circle while the dealer is shuffling. Walk away before the first hand of the new deck, and you'll be rated as if you were playing during the shuffle. 8D shoes with bad pen become a gold mine!
This can be amplified by having a partner in the same pit distract the PC, making a big fuss over a coupon or something, so it will be a few minutes before the PC comes back to your table and clocks you out of the system.
My example is a store with a 0.36% game. This place pays you 20% of your average bet per hour of play. I'd say with a $1K bet, you could probably milk 8 minutes of theoretical yet illusory action out of one hand.
Expected play loss= $3.60
Comp = 20% X $1000 X 0.133 hours = $26.60
Comps can be redeemed for a cash-equivalent card at $1.50/$1, cash equivalent $17.73. Minus your $3.60 game EV, leaves you with $14.13 total EV, or an advantage of 1.413%.
Hey, let's do this!
One way to milk comps in a big store with computerized ratings is to come in at the last hand of the shoe with a huge bet, then leave your bet in the circle while the dealer is shuffling. Walk away before the first hand of the new deck, and you'll be rated as if you were playing during the shuffle. 8D shoes with bad pen become a gold mine!
This can be amplified by having a partner in the same pit distract the PC, making a big fuss over a coupon or something, so it will be a few minutes before the PC comes back to your table and clocks you out of the system.
My example is a store with a 0.36% game. This place pays you 20% of your average bet per hour of play. I'd say with a $1K bet, you could probably milk 8 minutes of theoretical yet illusory action out of one hand.
Expected play loss= $3.60
Comp = 20% X $1000 X 0.133 hours = $26.60
Comps can be redeemed for a cash-equivalent card at $1.50/$1, cash equivalent $17.73. Minus your $3.60 game EV, leaves you with $14.13 total EV, or an advantage of 1.413%.
Hey, let's do this!
Yes I am well below his level but the original post had was focused on the card mainly as a source of heat from the pit and getting known as a counter as opposed to the value of comps per se.
I am now very aware of the dire poverty I face but I do find the dialog here to be richly rewarding.
I am now very aware of the dire poverty I face but I do find the dialog here to be richly rewarding.
shadroch said:
My assumption would be to do a field test. Take a brand new player brand new card betting 5/35 with $15 av and lets see what happens. Harrahs LV is the place. I would be willing to bet that you won't get 2 free nights plus buffet for two plus breakfeast for two with 10 hours of play like you said. Intrested for a side bet ? I will be in LV in June.
EasyRhino
Well-Known Member
How does the computerization really affect this? I would think it would also work with a human pit filling out rating sheets, as long as he noticed the monster bet.Automatic Monkey said:
Or are you talking about super fancy table with like RFID chips (or mindplay) that are actually measuring the bets on the spot each hand? If so, I would imagine the uber tables would also clock when hands are being played, thus not making this particular gambit too useful..
Another potentially useful (and potentially lame) trick, would be anytime your bet is pulled away from the spot (like during a fill, or bathroom break) have what appears like it would have been a large bet sitting just outside the circle, away from the rest of the stack. The idea being that's what you had been betting. Like I said, probably lame.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
The computerized systems I'm familiar with, the computer just keeps track of the time you spend in the seat. The problem with RFID is it keeps track of number of hands dealt, so this wouldn't work.EasyRhino said:
With hand rating, it might work, or the PC might realize you're not actually playing the hands and do some mental compensation. I trust computers to screw things up for the casino.
Your trick isn't that lame, doesn't cost much. One thing I'll do is put a big bet in the circle during the shuffle, and let the PC assume I was playing it before the shuffle. When the shuffle is done, I pull out.
Now I'm trying to get the info on how different table games are rated. If carnival games are rated higher, there are probably ways to make this even more effective at those tables.
ihate17
Well-Known Member
The RFID tables I am familar with
Putting a large bet in the circle while the dealer shuffles and then reducing it before the next hand will do you no good on two counts.
The system caluculates your bet when the dealer hits this button built into the table, located near the shoe. So no bets go into the system while the dealer shuffles and the only way you might get credit for a bigger bet than you actually bet is to leave your big bet in the circle and then after the dealer hits that button, reduce it before the cards come out of the shoe. This can be done repeatively with some dealers while others might find you annoying and not press the button till after making sure you have the right bet in the circle.
When you see a system where every single chip has a RFID chip in it, you know this is not a system built to just prevent counterfeit chips but it is built to reduce comps and note your spread. There are many ways to tweek the spread recorded but I am not sure it is easy to milk for comps.
Another point: Dealers on these things are either lazy or told not to hit the button every hand, further reducing comps.
ihate17
Putting a large bet in the circle while the dealer shuffles and then reducing it before the next hand will do you no good on two counts.
The system caluculates your bet when the dealer hits this button built into the table, located near the shoe. So no bets go into the system while the dealer shuffles and the only way you might get credit for a bigger bet than you actually bet is to leave your big bet in the circle and then after the dealer hits that button, reduce it before the cards come out of the shoe. This can be done repeatively with some dealers while others might find you annoying and not press the button till after making sure you have the right bet in the circle.
When you see a system where every single chip has a RFID chip in it, you know this is not a system built to just prevent counterfeit chips but it is built to reduce comps and note your spread. There are many ways to tweek the spread recorded but I am not sure it is easy to milk for comps.
Another point: Dealers on these things are either lazy or told not to hit the button every hand, further reducing comps.
ihate17
You'll get me a brand new players card.I'll play 10 hours with an average bet of $15 and you are willing to bet I won't get a marketing offer of at least two free nights and two breakfasts? I'd think about that if I was you,but if still want to after you've given it more thought,you are on.I'm getting the idea you have absolutely no idea how Harrahs Total rewards systems work.I'm not sure about June,but we'll work out a date.InPlay said:
First I am well aware of Harrahs total reward program. I have been comp mucho by them. One one the casino host I work with is Willie Goose at the Rio. He was from Detroit worked at Greektown. Everyone gets marketing offers I agree. Most people have their offers paying for everthing before they play. Thats based on past performance. The point was you could not get comp as a new player with a new card for the amount that you said on the level of play. I never said MARKETING OFFERS ! Do you agree?shadroch said:
shadroch said:
This was my post. You said I was wrong and a new player wouldn't get this.
I say they will and are willing to submit to a field test to show its validity.
You going to accept or you going to parse words?
BTW- Why would a BJ player have any use for a host at The Rio? Do you play there?
shadroch said:
Don't play their. He is a old freind of mine from Detroit. I use him for extras. Like staying in suites at the Rio. Some of the Suites are bigger then most people houses. I guess we were both thinking in different directions. No use going back and forth with this. Marketing offers are to easy to come by. One example is I stayed at the old Alladian Hotel years ago one time. Played in the London Room at that time. Planet Hollywood takes over free offers start to roll. Grand opening special room, dinner, cash, show tickets and discount air +free air for future trips. Once you are on the list you will always receive marketing offers.