PLaying for a living
- Thread starter haxxilla
- Start date
kewljason
Well-Known Member
this is a kind of vague question. Blackjack is my only source of income, but I play low stakes and make a very modest income (30-40K) I know this wouldn't be acceptable to most on here but is fine for me, I'm still building my bankroll. I think the number of full time player making hundreds of thousands a year are growing slimmer and slimmer and they probably won't respond here.haxxilla said:
Perhaps you should restructure your question, stating what income you are looking to make and someone will advise you of the stakes and bankroll required.
FLASH1296
Well-Known Member
Technology and the Death of Blackjack
The best estimates are that there are perhaps (at the most) 200
full-time Pro BJ players in the U S A and perhaps (as few as) 150.
I do not play full-time.
Full-time is a fuzzy term.
Nobody plays 2,000 hrs. per year.
Some months I may spend as much as 60 hrs. at the tables.
Some months will not find me at the BJ tables at all.
I have had no "earned income" since 1992.
In spite of the hyperbolic claims, the reality is that one
can only "grind out" a rather modest income at blackjack.
Many are called. Few are chosen.
This is much harder than it appears to be.
There are realities that exist outside of computer simulations.
You will NEVER approach the "long run"
We are obliged to think in terms of the "law of large numbers"
I do not live solely in an abstract world of numbers
when working to extract soft profits from the casino.
There are still a few good games in a few places;
but they are monitored so closely, by staff that is so paranoid,
that having a "good outcome" has become less and less likely
over recent decades. The trend has become exquisitely clear.
The public is given poor games at stakes that they can afford.
The wealthy are given [good to great] games but are surveilled
as closely as imaginable.
I say, with utmost certainty, that you, the reader, can hardly
imagine it, but BJ, on a serious level, becomes work.
Work in the sense of a tedious, boring, predictable activity that
swallows up the finite days of your life.
TRUTH: Card Counting is a nice hobby for those who can afford it.
The best estimates are that there are perhaps (at the most) 200
full-time Pro BJ players in the U S A and perhaps (as few as) 150.
I do not play full-time.
Full-time is a fuzzy term.
Nobody plays 2,000 hrs. per year.
Some months I may spend as much as 60 hrs. at the tables.
Some months will not find me at the BJ tables at all.
I have had no "earned income" since 1992.
In spite of the hyperbolic claims, the reality is that one
can only "grind out" a rather modest income at blackjack.
Many are called. Few are chosen.
This is much harder than it appears to be.
There are realities that exist outside of computer simulations.
You will NEVER approach the "long run"
We are obliged to think in terms of the "law of large numbers"
I do not live solely in an abstract world of numbers
when working to extract soft profits from the casino.
There are still a few good games in a few places;
but they are monitored so closely, by staff that is so paranoid,
that having a "good outcome" has become less and less likely
over recent decades. The trend has become exquisitely clear.
The public is given poor games at stakes that they can afford.
The wealthy are given [good to great] games but are surveilled
as closely as imaginable.
I say, with utmost certainty, that you, the reader, can hardly
imagine it, but BJ, on a serious level, becomes work.
Work in the sense of a tedious, boring, predictable activity that
swallows up the finite days of your life.
TRUTH: Card Counting is a nice hobby for those who can afford it.
I know of about a dozen full-timers that play downtown. Surprisingly, none of them play more than an occasional green chip. They are all older men who I'm sure are collecting Social Security or , in one case an Army pension.
They are all grinders who are very happy when they win $300-500 a week.
The one I'm friendliest with tells me he's happy if he makes $50 in six hours, as long as he gets a meal out of it. He's in his sixties and lives in a motel a few blocks up Ogden. One time, I offered to buy him lunch and he put his card in a machine to show me he had over $3,000 in comps available. I let him pay for lunch.
If you are talking about people who make $100,000 or more a year, then I'd say its a small number, but there seem to be quite a few grinders out there.
They are all grinders who are very happy when they win $300-500 a week.
The one I'm friendliest with tells me he's happy if he makes $50 in six hours, as long as he gets a meal out of it. He's in his sixties and lives in a motel a few blocks up Ogden. One time, I offered to buy him lunch and he put his card in a machine to show me he had over $3,000 in comps available. I let him pay for lunch.
If you are talking about people who make $100,000 or more a year, then I'd say its a small number, but there seem to be quite a few grinders out there.
kewljason
Well-Known Member
FLASH1296 said:
If one owns a restuarant (or any business) , the actual time involved is much greater than the hours of operation. Prep time, bookeeping, ect. I look at blackjack the same way. I only played 1400+ actual hours last year, but I consider my time invested to be much greater than 2000 hours. I still practice almost every day, plus record keeping, travel time and even time spent continuing my blackjack education, reading various blackjack boards and reading and re-reading numerous books.
I am also courious to know how you came up with the 150-200 figure for fulltime blackjack player worldwide. I suspect it is higher than that worldwide. I too know of several retired people (and one on disability) who suppliment their income playing blackjack. Their blackjack earings surpass their social security incomes. I consider these people full time blackjack players.
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I don't know how you do it Tarzan. For me, it starts to get boring after a few hours and the level of concentration it requires with so many distractions, makes it a grind. I guess at some point I'll be able to just scan the entire table and with just one glance, have the count but for now I have to count each player's hand one at a time. I think it's unhealthy to play Bj for that many hours too as it's a very sedentary lifestyle.
jack.jackson
Well-Known Member
KOLAN said:
It can still be done.
mjbballar23
Well-Known Member
If you have a big bankroll, travel to good games, and are a skilled player 100k a year is very possible.
I have been playing blackjack professionally for 13 years. If Flash's outlook on the game was mine, I would not have lasted 6 months. The one thing I can agree on is that BJ on a serious level is work. But I am not one who just grinds away a passable existence with long hours in unhealthy conditions. Its been my experience as what one may consider a high level pro, that grinding it out at the tables day after day is not conducive to a very fulfilling lifestyle. What I have done in my career besides opening up a more advanced repitoire of techniques beyond counting, is think outside the box in ways of realizing the money potential blackjack offers. It starts and ends with team play for me, but in between there is a magnitude of opportunities that exist for talented, energetic, AP's who learn that there is gauranteed money out there once the right moves are made. There are many aspects of my game where I am just as vulnerable as the next AP to variance and negative fluxuation. But there is also a part of my game where the negative does not come into play, its just degrees of success, with no failure. Its when you find these aspects of the game that the grind is less, the money is more, and your time is really your own.FLASH1296 said:
