ploppy friends are insane!!

[la_dee_daa]

Well i have a couple of friends who are the biggest casino junkies and terrible blackjack players. They are the kind of people who will never double or split and refuse to hit 12 v 10 despite the fact they know they should ( i even off to teach them atleast bs. They go to the casino before classes, during and after class ( kinda funny they are in business management).

interesting enough one guy went to the casino middle of the day and of course lost $12 000 in less then a hour... why he was betting $1500 to $3000 a hand...... i just have to shake my head and wonder. and here in canada a "good" comp is considered a free drink to just top it off.

does anyone else know people who don't listen and you just feel like smacking them sometimes.

 

[aslan]

Yes. And they can't wait to see me have just one losing session so they can spread the word that Mr. Counter went off like a rocket! Yet they go week after week, refuse to learn counting, play fairly accurate basic strategy, plus they play slots and craps, and sometimes three card poker. They always seem to either win or break even. They have no advantage play. It doesn't take a genius to realize they are covering up their losses, some of which are probably quite high. But that's what counts to them--whether people know how big a loser they are. I'd like to slap them sometimes, especially when they try to make me look like a loser, but then, they are getting punishment enough in what they are losing in secret.

 

[Sonny]

does anyone else know people who don't listen and you just feel like smacking them sometimes.

I spent over a month posting on John Patrick's website, so yes. I wouldn't consider them friends (they were anything but friendly) but there are certainly a lot of people who don't listen to reason and need to be smacked. As much as I would love to knock some sense into them, I also realize that these people are paying my salary. People like them who are losing at a rate of maybe 5% are the reason a guy like me can come in and win 2% of it back from the casino. Both the casinos and the APs are making money from these guys. Without them there would be no money to be made for anyone.

Tell your friends that Sonny says thanks. :grin:

-Sonny-

 

[EasyRhino]

interesting enough one guy went to the casino middle of the day and of course lost $12 000 in less then a hour... why he was betting $1500 to $3000 a hand......

Sounds like they were overbetting their bankroll.

But to be fair, losing only $12k with those bets isn't too bad.

 

[rollem411]

I enjoy going to the casino with my friends who don't have a good idea of bs or any idea of counting. I try and use them as camo and it's a lot easier to backcount when they are playing...I just sit at the table and don't even play a hand until the count gets high and I say "Alright I think I'm ready to go". I tell them about the advantages of counting, but none really care because they just want the entertainment.

 

[jack.jackson]

IS THAT YOU SILENTBOB?​

 

[la_dee_daa]

i would hope not..

just have friends who think they can make money from luck at the casinos and don't have really have the money they bet..

and who is this silent bob fellow?

 

[aslan]

i would hope not..

just have friends who think they can make money from luck at the casinos and don't have really have the money they bet..

and who is this silent bob fellow?

Sssshhhhh!!!

 

[davidpom]

We don't need to smack these people, the casinos smack them for us. Losing cash is enough discipline for most people - they soon learn the error of their ways...

I just personally try to avoid playing with "idiots" at the tables I play on. If I start getting people sitting on 15 against a picture when the count doesn't dictate otherwise, I leave the table and go elsewhere. I'd suggest that's a good strategy for all of us to follow.

 

[BlackChipBlackJack]

We don't need to smack these people, the casinos smack them for us. Losing cash is enough discipline for most people - they soon learn the error of their ways...

I just personally try to avoid playing with "idiots" at the tables I play on. If I start getting people sitting on 15 against a picture when the count doesn't dictate otherwise, I leave the table and go elsewhere. I'd suggest that's a good strategy for all of us to follow.

their mistakes are just as likely to help you as they are to hurt you

 

[la_dee_daa]

its just hard to watch friends bleed money to the extent that it makes you mad at them !!! People going to school shouldn't be gambling soo much money either since the guy, by the way, is 19... hey but you go unnoticed when they are around.

Do you think it would be worth it to convince him to be like a Big Player and tell him to bet when the count is good as I backcount and so on maybe giving him a bs card with a few subtle count changes... or do people like this have absolutely no discipline.. since his potential br is a lot larger than mine?

 

[EasyRhino]

Do you think it would be worth it to convince him to be like a Big Player and tell him to bet when the count is good as I backcount and so on maybe giving him a bs card with a few subtle count changes...

In theory, yes. At higher stakes, a player who's an established loser at a particular joint would make an AWESOME big player.

or do people like this have absolutely no discipline..

The more likely result. It would be hard to prevent overbetting and playing mistakes.

 

[Sonny]

... or do people like this have absolutely no discipline?

I agree with Rhino on this one. Most people don't have the patience for that kind of thing. When he finds out that he's only playing 15-20 hands per hour he'll get bored real quick. The next time you turn around you’ll see your BP on the other side of the pit playing roulette. Gamblers need to stay in action in order to have fun. I think we all know that sitting around waiting for a shoe to turn profitable is about a boring as it gets. Gamblers also have trouble controlling their impulses. If you tell him to make a big bet, don’t be surprised if he ignores you and stands on his 16 vs. 7. When he loses, don’t be surprised if he starts chasing his losses.

-Sonny-

 

[sagefr0g]

I agree with Rhino on this one. Most people don't have the patience for that kind of thing. When he finds out that he's only playing 15-20 hands per hour he'll get bored real quick. The next time you turn around you’ll see your BP on the other side of the pit playing roulette. Gamblers need to stay in action in order to have fun. I think we all know that sitting around waiting for a shoe to turn profitable is about a boring as it gets. Gamblers also have trouble controlling their impulses. If you tell him to make a big bet, don’t be surprised if he ignores you and stands on his 16 vs. 7. When he loses, don’t be surprised if he starts chasing his losses.

-Sonny-

as always excellent analysis Sonny IMHO. gambling has become a point of interest for me as a result of how i'm currently approaching what i hope at least has a bias towards reaping an advantage when playing blackjack. you know the fuzzy approach. i just wanted to make the distinction that there can be various degrees of a gamble just as there are various degrees of an advantage and risk of ruin that an AP may place bets at. take a slot player for example. i guess they play against a house edge of about 20% - 15% or so and many of them hardly even realize that fact. and then a pure basic strategy player in blackjack may play agaisnst a near 0% - 0.5% house edge or so. then a counter might reap just over a 1% edge. all the above over a significant amount of time and a lot of action to realize those edges with possible playing condition changes not to mention other factors outside of gaming. and then short term for all the above it's basically always a gamble the results of which flit about within some standard deviation of some expected edge and from the long term view taking into account what ever bankroll one has there is always some risk of ruin lurking in the background.
that being so it seems only prudent IMHO that an AP face a certain truth that his bankroll (which needs to be what for lots of people is a significant sum of money) is indeed being put at total risk of loss. that is a gamble. it may be a calculated gamble however there are other elements when it comes to one's money that are not associated with what ever game is being played.
what for the AP at one particular point in time may be money that he can afford to lose can become a significant issue if other elements outside of his gamming exploits do not go so well. economic downturns, unexpected financial issues ect. in short none of us are playing in a vacuum lol.
so once again i ramble on but i just wanted to make the point that i think if there is some hope for success for us gaming that we need to face up to the gamble involved and be willing to do it.

 

[EasyRhino]

a slot player for example. i guess they play against a house edge of about 20% - 15% or so

It's usually only that bad at the airport. The Wiz did a survey a few years ago that I thought was very englightening.

i just wanted to make the point that i think if there is some hope for success for us gaming that we need to face up to the gamble involved and be willing to do it.

Yep, I think that's one of the universal truths:
- It's always a gamble.
- The airport is bad.
- Ploppies be crazy.

 

[davidpom]

Life's a gamble. Even decision you make has a consequence, good or bad. Blackjack just reflects life. Sometimes the "right play" costs you money. Sometimes bad hands turn good.

The game of life, the game of blackjack, the wheel of fortune. All are a gamble. Enjoy the game!

 

[la_dee_daa]

I agree with Rhino on this one. Most people don't have the patience for that kind of thing. When he finds out that he's only playing 15-20 hands per hour he'll get bored real quick. The next time you turn around you’ll see your BP on the other side of the pit playing roulette. Gamblers need to stay in action in order to have fun. I think we all know that sitting around waiting for a shoe to turn profitable is about a boring as it gets. Gamblers also have trouble controlling their impulses. If you tell him to make a big bet, don’t be surprised if he ignores you and stands on his 16 vs. 7. When he loses, don’t be surprised if he starts chasing his losses.

-Sonny-

yea that would be the exact problem. Iv convinced him its worth while to try it with me, either that or lose the rest of his money.
just a couple questions for you
first- how large a bankroll would be needed for the Big Player approach
second- how would it be if i played with my personal bankroll and had him mimic my betting spread or something less obvious only when the count went high and take a % cut from his winnings. soo i would have my own plus extra EV from his which i would take it would drop my RoR quite a lot...
Does this sound like a good idea for a casino with really no heat?
only problem is that it's the only casino with shoes games in my area being canada and all.

But Sonny and Rhino your right it will probably be a short run thing if that but might grow my bankroll a fair bit with very little risk.

 

[BlackChipBlackJack]

yea that would be the exact problem. Iv convinced him its worth while to try it with me, either that or lose the rest of his money.
just a couple questions for you
first- how large a bankroll would be needed for the Big Player approach
second- how would it be if i played with my personal bankroll and had him mimic my betting spread or something less obvious only when the count went high and take a % cut from his winnings. soo i would have my own plus extra EV from his which i would take it would drop my RoR quite a lot...
Does this sound like a good idea for a casino with really no heat?
only problem is that it's the only casino with shoes games in my area being canada and all.

But Sonny and Rhino your right it will probably be a short run thing if that but might grow my bankroll a fair bit with very little risk.

you in ontario? what casino you playing at?

 

[la_dee_daa]

you in ontario? what casino you playing at?

no vancouver bc if you live there you know what casino im talking about. vanvouer is probably the worst place since everything is csms except this one place.

 

[Max.Bettor]

Better Hurry

Once they move to the new location across the street (in about 5-6 months), it'll be all CSMs. There is minimal heat there generally and if you do get identified, they only go as far as half-shoeing you.