Poker ... Books, Tips etc

M

mjbballar23

Well-Known Member
poker

BlodiaInc said:
Unless you are playing meaningful limit stakes live,

1) Poker is about volume... The volume of hands you get per hour online vs. live is not even close... This is just one case where time = money... if you are a winning online player, you need to stay online... if you're not... then, you need to improve because...
2) Poker isn't a systematic game... I don't care how confident you are in your skills or how bad you think a certain live game is, because no amount of bad play in a LIMIT game is going to boost your win rate meaningfully (per hour) live. And if you're like me, I still don't have the discipline to lay down made hands when i've been 3 betting the whole way only to get flushed/boated/etc.. on the river... This is why I prefer no-limit... even against tougher online competition, it is more about making plays than calling down bets and getting rewarded for terrible play. More than that though, there is really no way to meaningfully measure what win rate to expect in any live poker game... the conditions are just way too variable. In no-limit your variance may be more than limit, but you can at least analyze your play (if you're honest with yourself), and make sure you made +EV plays... In analyzing limit hands, I have sat there and just said... wow... I hate limit poker... called down and shafted...

Maybe you could talk more about your goals etc... I have been playing poker way longer than blackjack... and am only playing blackjack to get away from the daily grind of poker... with more grinding =)

Moral of story: the most CONSISTENT poker income (for most people) is multi-tabling limit online.... kudos if you got rakeback. Also, look into turbo sng's... there is no easy money in poker just as there is no easy money in blackjack... you're right about online being WAY tougher live, but realize that this is why the WSOP is such a huge sucker bet for the pros.... ANYONE CAN WIN!
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I am learning poker because i would like to be able to play poker and BJ on my AP trips and would also like to be able to relax at my house and play online. Playing nothing but blackjack can get pretty boring and i feel like poker could help switch things up a little. Also if i travel to a place only to find awful BJ playing conditions, it would be nice to fall back on poker as an alternative.

I feel like limit is my game. I am not the person to go on tilt and i can accept a bad beat as long as i can look back on the hand and see that i make all the right plays and my opponent was making a -EV play by playing me to the river. I have access to loose 8/16 (extremely LAG), 6/12, 4/8, and 3/6 games (also 2/4 but pretty sure the rake makes it unbeatable), with great blackjack games near by aswell!

Online i was up 60BB over my first 15k hands or so but in the last 1k hands i am down 100BB, so i dont really know what to think (i realize that is not a statistically significant number of hands).

Goals:
1. make $15k/year online (realistic right?)
2. Crush the 8/16 live game while also pulling in some $$ at the BJ tables
3. Eventually i would also like to get into some tournament play but i feel i should master limit concepts first and gradually pick up some tournament play.

Plan to become a strong winning player:
1. subscribe to stoxpoker.com
2. purchase pokertracker 3
3. Play approximately 10 hours a week at either FTP, PokerStars, and/or Cake Poker (with bonuses and/or rakeback of course).
4. post troubling hands at twoplustwo.com
5. read and reread Small Stakes Hold'em, Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players, Weighing the Odds in Hold'em Poker, and Winning in Tough Hold'em Games.

Note: i have already read HPFAP and SSH twice

Questions:
1. What do you think of my plan? Any suggestions?
2. At what level do you think live limit play becomes worthwhile?
 
B

BlodiaInc

Active Member
mjbballar23 said:
I am learning poker because i would like to be able to play poker and BJ on my AP trips and would also like to be able to relax at my house and play online. Playing nothing but blackjack can get pretty boring and i feel like poker could help switch things up a little. Also if i travel to a place only to find awful BJ playing conditions, it would be nice to fall back on poker as an alternative.

I feel like limit is my game. I am not the person to go on tilt and i can accept a bad beat as long as i can look back on the hand and see that i make all the right plays and my opponent was making a -EV play by playing me to the river. I have access to loose 8/16 (extremely LAG), 6/12, 4/8, and 3/6 games (also 2/4 but pretty sure the rake makes it unbeatable), with great blackjack games near by aswell!

Online i was up 60BB over my first 15k hands or so but in the last 1k hands i am down 100BB, so i dont really know what to think (i realize that is not a statistically significant number of hands).

Goals:
1. make $15k/year online (realistic right?)
2. Crush the 8/16 live game while also pulling in some $$ at the BJ tables
3. Eventually i would also like to get into some tournament play but i feel i should master limit concepts first and gradually pick up some tournament play.

Plan to become a strong winning player:
1. subscribe to stoxpoker.com
2. purchase pokertracker 3
3. Play approximately 10 hours a week at either FTP, PokerStars, and/or Cake Poker (with bonuses and/or rakeback of course).
4. post troubling hands at twoplustwo.com
5. read and reread Small Stakes Hold'em, Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players, Weighing the Odds in Hold'em Poker, and Winning in Tough Hold'em Games.

Note: i have already read HPFAP and SSH twice

Questions:
1. What do you think of my plan? Any suggestions?
2. At what level do you think live limit play becomes worthwhile?
Click to expand...
everyone is different, and you're outline is very routine... However, in the end... nothing can beat practice... you really should be shooting for 2 BB/100... unfortunately... i cannot tell you what and what isn't realistic... that all depends on how good you can pick up playing poker...

You are right to start with limit since you have been playing blackjack systematically... however realize... online... most books are no longer applicable... Even at 2/4 limits, you will find sharks who are not playing straightforward games that all the old poker books assume... in the end... you still need to become good in making decisions and putting people on hands... i wouldn't classify a live game as LAG... it's more likely the game you play is just TERRIBLE... there are LAG players at 2/4 who will outplay you because they know how to pick their spots...

In terms of sites... everyone has their own opinions/favs... stoxpoker, cardrunners, pokerpwnage, pokerxfactor, sngicons, plus several others... Don't worry too much about what each site offers... each site are stronger in certain areas vs others due to the specialties of their pros so do some research... what's most important and +EV is to focus on one site and try not to learn EVERYTHING... experience is EVERYTHING in poker... no book is going to teach you... just don't get too fancy! Try to play as you normally play... when you post a hand history or analyze your hands... try not to be too complicated about it... you need to take baby steps in poker... if you try to do too much at once... i found that it ends up hurting you

Go to thepokerbay... i know they have had stox videos.... and numerous other videos....

I don't know where you are at currently... but i highly doubt you will make 15k a year playing 10 hours a week at your current level... but this really all depends on how fast you can learn... note that PokerStars does not have rakeback... and IMO... stick with FTP or PS... cashouts are a huge issue right now...

Poker is nothing like blackjack... that is why i picked up blackjack to vary my time just as you picked up poker to vary your time...

I play poker because I honestly enjoy it... I picked up BJ to be an AP to play consistently and make money in the long run... stick to limit... tourneys are donks and sharks.... it is very -EV to learn to play tournaments unless you have great natural ability in tournament... think short-term goals man... that's the best advice i can give you... one step at a time....
 
moo321

moo321

Well-Known Member
mjbballar23 said:
Anybody have any knowledge on how beatable a loose-passive 3/6 live game is? Rake is 10% up to $4 and a $1 drop for the bad beat jackpot. Assume about 5-8 players see every flop. What is a reasonable win-rate one can expect?

thanks
Click to expand...
I've averaged $12 an hour in $3-6 live with a $5 rake lifetime. I've averaged $20/ hour in a $1-3 NL game with no rake. Hundreds of hours at both.
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
moo321 said:
Super System by Doyle Brunson is awesome. Harrington on Hold'em is a good tourney book, but if you read that you also need to read Poker Tournament Formula by Arnold Snyder to get another perspective.

Matt Maroon has a book that's good, but I can't remember the name of it. It covers limit. Both of Gordon's books are good as well.

I hate David Sklansky, and I think his books, and most of the 2+2 books are trash. BUT, you should read them, because most of the "good" players use his strategy.
Click to expand...
I'll second Super System.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
Hands down, the best book on low-stakes poker tournament strategy is Arnold Snyder's The Poker Tournament Formula. I have an autographed copy that I received AFTER I was banned permanently from his site and Stalker's Fight Club, and I owe him a review. I have used the PTF to win a couple of tournaments already. zg


Getting Started in Poker Tournaments:
The Ball Cap Kids Meet the Oaf from Hell

By Math Boy (From Blackjack Forum , Summer 2006)
© Blackjack Forum 2006

[Editor's Note: Math Boy has been a professional gambler for as long as I have known him. Don’t get the idea that anyone can start making money in poker tournaments this easily right from the start, just by reading The Poker Tournament Formula (or half of it). Math Boy’s got a lot more game in him than any average newbie who starts out in tournaments. He has a long history of involvement in high-risk gambling plays where aggression is not only the optimum strategy, but a necessary component of profitable play. He plays casino games at the highest levels, and the poker tournaments he played were small stakes events in terms of his gambling bankroll. But I really like this article. He sent us this story unsolicited, and I am publishing it because it really does address the fearless attitude you must take into a tournament, and, let’s face it, it’s amusing as hell. —A.S.]

“Since, as a beginner, you can’t be good, at least opt for being dangerous.” —The Poker Tournament Formula

I liked the sound of Arnold’s new book, The Poker Tournament Formula. I’d heard from people that players are worse in no limit games than limit, and it seemed to me that players would have even less of an idea of how to play no limit tournaments. Plus, no limit tournaments sounded like something fun to do for grins. In 2000 I had read the Lee Jones book on low limit hold’em (Winning Low Limit Hold’Em, Conjelco, 2000), and I had played about a dozen hours of low limit poker in the years since then. So I got Arnold’s book and started reading it. I read the first few chapters at home, and got up to the position strategy. On the flight to Vegas I read about card strategy, and flipped ahead to a few chapters that seemed like lighter topics. I got to the point where I had read the position strategy, card strategy, and how to keep track of how much was in the pot. Three new things were enough to keep track of for my first tournament.

So I got to Vegas and the first tournament I entered was a small stakes event rated Skill Level 1. I figured I would not want a higher skill level tournament because I had no skills. In this first tournament, I screwed up the position strategies. The book advises that from the button you should raise if first in, call any number of limpers, and call up to one raiser. But from the button and the two seats next to it I was raising any number of limpers. I lasted 25 minutes.

MORE- http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/poker_tournament_formula_getting_started.htm
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