Portend the end?

[ChefJJ]

I've never been allowed to wong in on any of the $25. I'm not sure about $15tables but they usually don't have many such unless it is crowded and then it is nearly impossible to backcount and get a seat when you want it. What has you experience been?

You can jump in on the $15 (from what I've experienced) in AC...and those are surely out there.

AC is a bummer for BJ these days overall, but keep the faith. Of course, I sure love Vegas and there ain't nothing wrong with heading out there a few times a year (especially during football season). :grin:

As if anybody cares much, there are some good places to shoot dice in AC.

good luck

 

[aslan]

Places with lots of tables running shoe games.

Now that narrows it down. :laugh:

 

[Automatic Monkey]

I find the differences quite significant - how else do you explain a ~50% higher win rate for 6D vs 8D with same H17 DAS crappy rules with the same spread, same %age pen, same ROR and same bankroll basically across the board whether playing-all or BC'ing? Of course unit size may vary...

That's a common miscalculation. Let's say you treat pen as a percentage and you have 75% pen on two shoes, 6D/1.5 and 8D/2.0. Sure you have a 50% difference there. But when you keep pen constant, 6D/2.0 and 8D/2.0, that's a more realistic situation for AC, and you'll find there's little difference but psychological.

 

[blackchipjim]

question of wong out

I'll ask the proverbial question of game. If I sit at a either a 6 or 8 deck game with good pen and play to the high count then bang out the big bets and leave is that not better than walking around. Playing at a lower limit table then wonging out at proper times would seem to be a better game with less chance of drawing heat. blackchipjim

 

[Knox]

Flat bet $100 at the LV Hilton and you are on the free room list. Do the math and you will see that is not a bad deal. In addition, you can just drop to $25 if the PB is not looking and the count is bad. Probably no worse than a break even proposition, even better with some wong out/hold my spot antics. Plus it can be fun to play $100 for a short time even if it's over your head, especially when you get a nice run going.

I agree that Biloxi/Gulfport is problematic with regard to flights. The best option might be Delta through Atlanta, that is what I am doing next week. My work pays that one anyway, I guess I am a little blessed in that regard as I rarely pay my own way with regard to flights, hotels, and even cars sometimes. All it takes is $25 play at the Beau Rivage to get free rooms right now, and that place is a beautiful Vegas-style hotel, the nicest in the area. I can get 4 free nights at a time there, plus free tickets to their Cirque show. Unfortunately, they delayed the new "Y" show opening from 2/14 until 2/18, so I am now going to miss out after just setting that up, I was pissed.

Almost forgot to mention, don't forget that Mobile is an option for flying to Biloxi, I think that is only about and hour or so.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

I'll ask the proverbial question of game. If I sit at a either a 6 or 8 deck game with good pen and play to the high count then bang out the big bets and leave is that not better than walking around. Playing at a lower limit table then wonging out at proper times would seem to be a better game with less chance of drawing heat. blackchipjim

In terms of game EV, there's no way you can get better than betting $0 when you don't have an advantage, in any game. There's also no way you can attract less attention than betting $0. Although heat is mostly a non-issue in AC.

Wonging out of bad counts isn't a terrible approach either and it makes it a lot easier to get comps,where applicable. The comps for table game players in AC stink, so it's usually not worth it, but there's another shoe game I play with valuable comps where I sit down at the shuffle and Wong out.

 

[moo321]

Flat bet $100 at the LV Hilton and you are on the free room list. Do the math and you will see that is not a bad deal. In addition, you can just drop to $25 if the PB is not looking and the count is bad. Probably no worse than a break even proposition, even better with some wong out/hold my spot antics. Plus it can be fun to play $100 for a short time even if it's over your head, especially when you get a nice run going.

I agree that Biloxi/Gulfport is problematic with regard to flights. The best option might be Delta through Atlanta, that is what I am doing next week. My work pays that one anyway, I guess I am a little blessed in that regard as I rarely pay my own way with regard to flights, hotels, and even cars sometimes. All it takes is $25 play at the Beau Rivage to get free rooms right now, and that place is a beautiful Vegas-style hotel, the nicest in the area. I can get 4 free nights at a time there, plus free tickets to their Cirque show. Unfortunately, they delayed the new "Y" show opening from 2/14 until 2/18, so I am now going to miss out after just setting that up, I was pissed.

Almost forgot to mention, don't forget that Mobile is an option for flying to Biloxi, I think that is only about and hour or so.

Skybus goes to Biloxi, I believe. $10 flights if you book like 6 months in advance.

 

[Kasi]

In terms of game EV, there's no way you can get better than betting $0 when you don't have an advantage, in any game.

I see where you were coming from now on the 6D vs 8D thing. Although comparing at different penetration percentages makes it alot more like apples and oranges to me. But you were quite right in what you said. Just an extra 26 cards in pen would turn the 4/6D into 50% better than the 6/8D. Without them, they are about the same. All of which is good to know of course in evaluating what may be better to play.

Another thing that can dramatically effect win rate of course are the rules of the game. For instance, with good rules, I could make more money/hr spreading only 1-8 playing all hands in a 4.5/6 game than a back-counter would spreading even 1-4 in a 6/8 game with crappy rules.

Even though I'd be playing so many hands at a neg EV in this case and he played every single hand at a +EV.

So there's nothing necessarily wrong with playing neg EV hands if you end up with a +overall avg EV for the game.

A long way of going about trying to answer blackchipjim's question of what is better. It can depend on alot of things lol.

 

[jack.jackson]

Its time to do a little scouting, perhaps, and find which casinos allow MSE and start yourself a four man team

 

[aslan]

Its time to do a little scouting, perhaps, and find which casinos allow MSE and start yourself a four man team

Maybe.

Where can I find information on team play? For example, I don't know why you said "four man team" as opposed to any other number of team members.

I am looking into local firehouse casino gambling where I recently heard you can make a killing on SD and DD games.

I am visiting Vegas for nine days this month and will try to line up more frequent trips there. But then, even though there are better game opportunities there, team play is still a good way to go. I do in fact have one friend there who wants to team up. Quick question: Is my KO and his Hi-Lo a problem as a team?

 

[jack.jackson]

Maybe.

[QUOTEaslan;67502]Where can I find information on team play? For example, I don't know why you said "four man team" as opposed to any other number of team members.

Perhaps, when your ready, you could start your own thread on it; and the experienced players here,on team play, could give you some good sound advice.

Four sounds about ideal to me...... for mini-team play. This way you can stay focused and well organized.

I am looking into local firehouse casino gambling where I recently heard you can make a killing on SD and DD games

.
Well if thats the case, go make some money and never look back. Although good things never last!

Quick question: Is my KO and his Hi-Lo a problem as a team?

Shouldnt be; but, as I mentioned before, their are others here who could probably answer that better than I could. As long as the signals are understood by the BP, I dont see a problem. If your serious about it, I would give sonny a ring.

PS. No slots when you go to Vegas:yikes:

 

[sagefr0g]

......Don't feel bad Aslan - regardless of just about whatever, I pretty much reached the same conclusion as you along time ago. But I guess it might depend how much one plays and one's goals. For me, I could give a rat's ass if I make 20-$40/hr playing 20-40 hours a year, what with the variance and all, lol. Might be different if I lived next door lol.

How do you guys that do it, do it anyway?

My hat's off to you.

same here as far as the sentiment regarding the quality of games that i'm easily able to access. and ditto on how much one plays and goals. but i'll take the $20-$40/hr even if it's only 20-40 hours a year or what ever lol.
of course AutoMonkey is right about the virtues of wonging. me i just don't like wonging in and it would really shorten my welcome if i did it too much in the joints i mainly play. but then i'm willing to be a bit opportunistic about wonging in for what it's worth. and i'll wong out when i think i can do so with out being too obvious about my motives lol.
so for me it's just a pragmatic thing to go ahead and accept the harsh realities of the games available to me too where i try and develope some skill (real or imagined as it may be) against the crappy games and conditons that exist. so for me i guess i need to have some sort of fiscally responsible way of watching my bottom line as how i go about playing really is a gamble. which is what i try to do as voodoo as it may seem. the idea being if things don't work so well i can allways go back to the drawing board and employ more orthodox methods.

 

[Kasi]

but i'll take the $20-$40/hr even if it's only 20-40 hours a year or what ever lol.
of course AutoMonkey is right about the virtues of wonging. me i just don't like wonging in and it would really shorten my welcome if i did it too much in the joints i mainly play. but then i'm willing to be a bit opportunistic about wonging in for what it's worth. and i'll wong out when i think i can do so with out being too obvious about my motives

I'd take it too if I didn't hate even more how likely I might be losing a crapload of money over the same 40 hours lol.

As far as the virtues of wonging goes, it could depend on alot of things. For sure, I'd rather play-all in a 4.5/6 S17 DAS LS game than wong in some crappy 6/8 H17 DAS game kind of thing. I'd probably even rather play-all in a 4.5/6 S17 DAS even without surrender compared to the other.

Even though, like I said before, the 6/8 H17 DAS game probably has a higher average EV.