Ratholing

[glovesetc]

why should I

post My name ? I am a private person - which I have a right to be as this still is america as I recall . Also I think the chances of meeting anyone in the room are rather slim anyways . It is also not being paranoid to say the least as just being private .

 

[glovesetc]

an addendum

I always use a players card , never use a phony name on a players card , and it is my real name as well as I notice alot of posters in here do not. That is their option of course as it my option to use my real name . That is all I was getting at - what is the big deal on ratholing ??? beats me for sure ! :grin: :cool2:

 

[aslan]

way too much aggrevation to go through all that if you ask me . I just got home fom the casino - my first trip since the surgery - and whenwe were done the pit boss looked at me and said Mr ********** did you cash ib the 22 purpkles ? I said yes so there is no need to cash them . I sent my lady friend to cash them in for me . He converted my blocks into pumpkins and said hope we see you soon and feel better . It is lie they do not know . I think the people are overly paranoid in the forum and also I think they give way too little credit to the pitbosses as well . Just my opinion . :grin: :cool2:

But, Gloves, you are mainly a BS player, right? Why would they consider backing you off? I'm sure they just hope to catch you steaming one of these trips, or a little unlucky variance. Anyway, unless you're counting to the nines, you already have the best cover available, like my gambling buddy who invariably wins, but never counts. He'll still be playing and winning, when I'm long gone. Ironic, isn't it?

 

[glovesetc]

very gtrue aslan my friend

We are all BS players with a little counting now and then . We are not pros by any stretch of the imagination nor do we claim to be . If they wait for any one of us to steam they have a long wait . We are way too disciplined and we think nothing of walking away to another table or casino for that matter . When you get older you have patience and discipline and those are great virtues . In anotherwards regarding your friend - hey BS is better then nothing for sure and you always have to remember that the counting and BS is based on millions of hands not a 6 hour jaunt to the casino or a two day trip . If the crds are against you in my opinion - you can count , play BS , and bring your own deck and you will still not win in my opinion . Opinions are like assholes - everyone has one !!!! LOL :grin: :cool2:

 

[ihate17]

Don't worry about it.

Out of curiosity, what kind of lifetime numbers must one have to earn him/her self a backoff or ban? What if somebody only plays a few times per year (3-4 weekends) but consistently wins a few hundred dollars? Would his/her lack of loss be enough that they would take notice?

Three or four weekends is very little, as is a few hundred and I would think you need not worry at all. It would take a super paranoid casino to back you off as even a horrible blackjack player can have 4 weekends of nothing but wins very easily.

I do not think red chip players really need to even think about this unless they are playing in low roller sweat shops.

Depending upon the game I am playing, my minimum bet is $50-$100 and with my spread can get much higher. There are also places that I might play at a dozen times or more a year, so the need for ratholing and a good act becomes much more important because the more you bet, all else being equal, the more attention you get.

ihate17

 

[rdorange]

Ratholing for a win or loss limit?

Lets see how most of you respond to this....Regarding Ratholing,

Most of the replies imply that a majority of players use ratholing to hide a long time win, so as to disguise it as a push or a loss, therefore appearing to be a loosing player. But do many of you not even look at the long haul? Just the session maybe? If so, just for money management and Br control.

IF you do it, do you do it to limit your losses?
Or do you do it to guarantee a win when you walk?
Or both?

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

The concept:
There are many casinos that really do not give you much heat on your bets if you do not bet too much according to whatever tolerance level they have (all casinos are different)
There are also casinos or shift that can not really ID an experienced counter.

But these casinos at times do backoff or ban players based upon the players lifetime win.

So you rathole! You take chips from the table and put them in your pocket when no one is watching. You do not overdue it and you also do it when you are losing.

An example:
Your records indicate that you are making $50 per hour playing in your local casino. But if you can put in your pocket 4 green chips per hour, the casinos record will show that you lose $50 per hour and you become a welcomed player.

Most casinos have their pits track the black and purple chips. There are times where the pit is very busy and they lose track, but most casinos who see black action, do not track green, so ratholing green is perfered.

ihate17

isnt the color-up very important for the casino in terms of tracking your total win/loss? i was thinking of never coloring up, thus they have no idea how much you have.. i dont really understand how they track your win/loss accurately, could you explain some of the tactics they use?

way too much aggrevation to go through all that if you ask me . I just got home fom the casino - my first trip since the surgery - and whenwe were done the pit boss looked at me and said Mr ********** did you cash ib the 22 purpkles ? I said yes so there is no need to cash them . I sent my lady friend to cash them in for me . He converted my blocks into pumpkins and said hope we see you soon and feel better . It is lie they do not know . I think the people are overly paranoid in the forum and also I think they give way too little credit to the pitbosses as well . Just my opinion . :grin: :cool2:

agreed

Kind of funny how you talk about overparanoid people in the same paragraph you black out your name.

agreed

Lets see how most of you respond to this....Regarding Ratholing,

Most of the replies imply that a majority of players use ratholing to hide a long time win, so as to disguise it as a push or a loss, therefore appearing to be a loosing player. But do many of you not even look at the long haul? Just the session maybe? If so, just for money management and Br control.

IF you do it, do you do it to limit your losses?
Or do you do it to guarantee a win when you walk?
Or both?

ill probably stop doing this since you guys seem to think its important, but i will buy in for $300, ask for 20 whites so i can count with them, then $200 worth of greens, and the rest red, and keep my greens in a neat little stack to know how much i have, then when im up, i will color up all my greens and some reds to blacks or whatever, then i will play with the rest of my reds until i build up another $100, run out, or feel like going home.. so the answer is both.. i have ocd so i love to keep things organized.. btw my bet is $10 flat, and i wong in/out repeatedly at the same table to get the advantage

 

[ihate17]

isnt the color-up very important for the casino in terms of tracking your total win/loss? i was thinking of never coloring up, thus they have no idea how much you have.. i dont really understand how they track your win/loss accurately, could you explain some of the tactics they use?


Generally the pit records your color up plus the remaining blacks and purples they figured you for and that minus your buy in is your win for that time at the table. Your win/loss is not accurate, it is a best quesstimate by the pit and you want to reduce it.

Never coloring up: This can be a huge mistake. Think for a second about the pit trying to track his black chips. He does not know or remember where a few went because he was busy, so he gives credit for every single missing chip to the guy who left with a bunch of chips and did not color up. Always color up but if you know a pit is a lazy and a new dealer has hit your table, you do not have to color up everything.

ihate17

 

[Doofus]

Interesting thread!

Ploppy here, basic strategy player and all-round novice.

I flew out to the Bellagio a month ago for two days of R&R, and promptly went on the best tear of my life. Betting blacks, took a BR of 5K with me, and left with over 7K in my pocket, even after steak dinners, massages, and hotel bill.

When I realized I was winning left and right, I regularly dropped blacks (and a couple of purples) in my shirt pocket. Only once was anything said, the pit boss asked if I put purples in my pocket, which I promptly said yes. Didn't want to lie about this.

The one big upside of ratholing for me on this trip was the informal rule that once it went into the pocket, in never came out. I also cashed in at the cage twice a night, between breaks.

I'll bet my profile has some interesting comments, though I did have an enjoyable couple of conversations with another pit boss (not the one who asked about the purples), who seemed a nice enough sort.

 

[EasyRhino]

Even if I was just a civilian gambler, I'd probably rathole anyway, as a "money management" technique (to reduce losses), as well as to somewhat improve my comp-hustling odds.

However, I'd be more likely to rathole black chips than greens.

 

[BlackChipBlackJack]

is there any reason to rathole if you dont give the casino any id or use a players card? do they only track your wins and losses by your players card? i never use a players card at the casino i go to but i do play there frequently (weekly)

 

[jimbiggs]

is there any reason to rathole if you dont give the casino any id or use a players card? do they only track your wins and losses by your players card? i never use a players card at the casino i go to but i do play there frequently (weekly)

Does this casino keep tracking cards in a box on the side of the table? Some casinos keep more accurate information than others. If you're playing in the same casino weekly, you will eventually become familiar to them whether you have a card or not. You still want to give the appearance that your wins are smaller and your losses are bigger.

On the other hand, I'm starting to find that ratholing can be like a Catch 22 situation. If you're playing heads up and ratholing chips to hide the fact that you're winning, that will get you by for a while until one of the pit crew stops by to count the tray at such and such time. When they find that a couple hundred in green are missing, they start to become suspicious. So it becomes counter-productive. This has brought attention to me before in a casino with zero heat. Chips are missing and pit guy gets in trouble. I'm the only one at the table with green chips. Now pit guy has a reason to turn the heat up. A good reason to avoid shift changes for sure.

 

[InPlay]

is there any reason to rathole if you dont give the casino any id or use a players card? do they only track your wins and losses by your players card? i never use a players card at the casino i go to but i do play there frequently (weekly)

I seen in another one of your post you play at charity casino mostly. What have you got to be worried about? AH ?

 

[BlackChipBlackJack]

I seen in another one of your post you play at charity casino mostly. What have you got to be worried about? AH ?

i was really just curious. dont think i draw too much attention at my betting level, just wanted to know if the player card was the only way they really kept track of things. what is AH?

 

[InPlay]

i was really just curious. dont think i draw too much attention at my betting level, just wanted to know if the player card was the only way they really kept track of things. what is AH?

Are you Canadian ?

 

[BlackChipBlackJack]

Are you Canadian ?

yes, resident of Ontario

 

[Frankie]

I rathole blacks all the time, and it mostly goes unnoticed (I think). I usually play $100-$500 minimum tables and I only rathole when other players are there with lots of chips. So how do they know who is ratholing? They don't. I just rathole $500-$1k each time, win or lose. It adds up, and my losses end up looking much bigger -- which can help with certain types of comps (airfare, etc.).

 

[EasyRhino]

And in your case Frankie, blacks are the new greens (or reds, maybe).

 

[Preston]

I ask to be paid in black when I have a winning hand that is over $100, not green. I only color up the green at the end of my session and I onlly color up for the amount that I bought in for. I put my winnings in my pocket right in front of the pit. Never had trouble.

 

[ihate17]

it all depends on a few factors

I ask to be paid in black when I have a winning hand that is over $100, not green. I only color up the green at the end of my session and I onlly color up for the amount that I bought in for. I put my winnings in my pocket right in front of the pit. Never had trouble.

Preston
Just because you have never had trouble does not mean that you are not credited by the pit with having those black chips. Many players, non counting players who play green or lower will put black or higher chips in their pocket. A pit does not look at this as your trying to hide something from them. They feel that you are just putting those chips in your so called personal vault, hoping to not remove them till you get to the cashier.
There are also casinos where the pit is either too busy to note who got what big chip or just too lazy. I often play in a place where they almost always record your color up but almost never track chips that come out on individual hands, so if you bet $200 in green and get paid with 2 blacks, unless the pit watched that hand they have no knowledge of your getting those chips.

Thing is, other casinos are very observant of where black and higher chips go. Another thing is, lifetime win can get you backed off. This is true for many Vegas casinos and if you are not playing on a black chip table, ratholing black can be a mistake. What easily can happen is the pit seeing you pocket those blacks might just give you credit for every black chip he can not account for, increasing the amount of win he records for you during that session. They do not account for the green. So if you know your game should earn you $50 per hour, then pocketing 4 green chips per hour will change your game into a $50 per hour loser in the casino's opinion. You need to do this without being seen and generally one or two chips at a time but you will find tons of opportunities.

ihate17