RFID Chips

[Iron Man]

I was at a store at some period before today, where they used RFID chips. I knew about these but never heard it explained and seen how it works. They have a button they press every time they deal that tracks how much you bet, and if you spread to more than one hand. The dealer told me and I didn't believe her. She read me off my bet spreads in detail :sad:

Anybody had any experience / stories about this ?

 

[LovinItAll]

I was at a store at some period before today, where they used RFID chips. I knew about these but never heard it explained and seen how it works. They have a button they press every time they deal that tracks how much you bet, and if you spread to more than one hand. The dealer told me and I didn't believe her. She read me off my bet spreads in detail :sad:

Anybody had any experience / stories about this ?

On a slightly different note (RFID-related, though):

There's a store that has a small piece of tinted glass embedded in the counter at the cage. One day I asked what it was for and the cashier said, "There are chips in the chips that 'count' how much you're giving us." (This store doesn't have RFID chips. I figure the glass shows surveillance the chips).

She proceeded to count my chips. "If the computer reads how much I've given you in chips, why are you counting them?"

"Just to make sure it's right."

"Oh. Where's the display that shows how much you've placed on the glass? You know, how many chips I gave you and how much you're suppossed to give me back?"

"There isn't one. That's why we count it."

oic.....

 

[creeping panther]

Iron

I was at a store at some period before today, where they used RFID chips. I knew about these but never heard it explained and seen how it works. They have a button they press every time they deal that tracks how much you bet, and if you spread to more than one hand. The dealer told me and I didn't believe her. She read me off my bet spreads in detail :sad:

Anybody had any experience / stories about this ?

The casinos that use this are very paranoid, probably not worth playing there anyway.

Often the dealer will forget to press the button,, but,do I like it,,,shiiiiiiiiiiii# no.

Whatta you gonna do.

CP

 

[21forme]

Aria uses RFID in their Black and higher chips. At the cage, they put them on a small pad and it reads out the amount.

 

[alwayssplitaces]

It makes it easier to track player's bets for comp purposes

 

[Iron Man]

So what's the consensus ? Not worth it ? The game isn't great, just get bored between real trips and its a good way to stay sharp.

 

[bigplayer]

I was at a store at some period before today, where they used RFID chips. I knew about these but never heard it explained and seen how it works. They have a button they press every time they deal that tracks how much you bet, and if you spread to more than one hand. The dealer told me and I didn't believe her. She read me off my bet spreads in detail :sad:

Anybody had any experience / stories about this ?

It only tells the casino your average bet, total action, lowest bet, and highest bet. It doesn't automatically know if you add a hand (as the pitboss has to assign the spot to you manually). If you add a hand it gives the play to "unrated player". If you take a hand out you get a bet of $0 for that round on that spot which goes as your lowest bet and reduces your average bet. If you play two hands of $50 for an hour you get rated as playing 2 hours with an average bet of $50. (like a slot machine) rather than 1 hour with $100 avg...this may be beneficial. Wonging in and out is really effective with this type of ratings system...it shows tight spread and your $0 bets aren't reflected in your average.

 

[Blue Efficacy]

A casino I play at often has this system. It counts how much you bet and gives you a percentage cash back for your blackjack play. Very nice.

 

[paddywhack]

It would really depend. Just having it record your bets, in and of itself, is not that terrible of a problem - unless it is somehow correlated to the deck composition. That would be BIG trouble.

I know that the stores I play rated don't usually do a very good job of giving me what is my actual average bet since I'm playing table min a good deal of the time so it would be a help in getting a fair comp rate.

 

[shadroch]

Whats the range on these chips?
Can the casino use them to find what room you are in, or follow you home?

 

[zengrifter]

This has been discussed before - IF the casino goes next-gen and combines average bet comp tracking RFID with the actual count, then an easy interesting countermeasure is to zap a bunch of chips for play and bet larger with the zapped hi-denom - causing the count-bet tracking to skew favorably. zg

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What is the RFID-Zapper?

The RFID-Zapper is a gadget to deactivate (i.e. destroy) passive RFID-Tags permanently.

The development-team presently consists of two people (MiniMe and Mahajivana), who had some help from a friend (thanks for that).
Goals are a proof-of-concept and the construction of at least one functioning and appealing prototype, as well as a documentation of the project so everyone can build an RFID-Zapper. Since the project found so much positive resonance, we probably are going to work on some other realizations of the concept, e.g. building an RFID-Zapper from scratch, without a single-use-camera.

Why should I need such a thing?

We have to expect to be surrounded by RFID-Tags almost everywhere within the near future, and they will serve many different purposes. The benefits and risks of this technology and it's use are already being discussed. However, there will be attempts to use RFID-Tags to establish constant surveillance and to further threaten and compromise the privacy of customers (and citizens and even non-citizens, when governments start to use RFID-Tags like the German government already did).

To defend yourself against such measures, you might want a small, simple and relatively appealing gadget to permanently deactivate RFID-Tags around you, e.g., to deactivate RFID-Tags in recently bought clothing or books without damaging them.

How does the RFID-Zapper work?

Passive RFID tags have no internal power supply. The minute electrical current induced in the antenna by the incoming radio frequency signal provides just enough power for the CMOS integrated circuit (IC) in the tag to power up and transmit a response.

There are several ways to deactivate RFID-Tags. One that might be offered by the industries are RFID-deactivators, which will send the RFID-Tag to sleep. A problem with this method is, that it is not permanent, the RFID-Tag can be reactivated (probably without your knowledge). Several ways of permanently deactivating RFID-Tags are known, e.g., cutting off the antenna from the actual microchip or overloading and literally frying the RFID-Tag in a common microwave-oven, which needs to be turned on only for a short period of time. Unfortunately both methods aren't suitable for the destruction of RFID-Tags in clothes: cutting off the antenna would require to damage the piece of cloth, while frying the chips is likely to cause a small but potent flame, which would damage most textiles or even set them on fire.

The RFID-Zapper solves this dilemma. Basically it copies the microwave-oven-method, but in a much smaller scale. It generates a strong electromagnetic field with a coil, which should be placed as near to the target RFID-Tag as possible. The RFID-Tag then will receive a strong shock of energy comparable with an EMP and some part of it will blow, thus deactivating the chip forever.
To keep the costs of the RFID-Zapper as low as possible, we decided to modify the electric component of a singe-use-camera with flash, as can be found almost everywhere. The coil is made from coated copper wire and placed inside the camera exactly where the film has been. Then one end of the coil is soldered to the camera's capacitor, from which we earlier disconnected the flash. The other end of the coil is soldered to a switch, which itself is connected to the capacitor's other terminal. Once everything is tested, the camera can be closed again and henceforth will serve as a RFID-Zapper, destroying RFID-Tags with the power of ordinary batteries.​

 

[21forme]

Whats the range on these chips?
Can the casino use them to find what room you are in, or follow you home?

Not more than 5-10 feet, max, probably less.

Think about it - if they are tracking an individual's chips at the table or cage, it has to be less than 12-18 inches, otherwise, it would get interference from neighboring players.

There are 2 types of RFID - passive and active.

The active ones have batteries in them, such as EZPass. They are bigger and have a greater range. If you've ever noticed the sensors at toll lanes on bridges or the NJ Tpk/AC Expwy, etc, they are ~20 feet high and can record vehicles moving 65+ mph.

The passive ones are smaller and have a more limited range. They just reflect back the transmitted signal, with some alterations. There was one in my ski pass this season, and the sensors at the lift lines were about 3 feet overhead.

 

[shadroch]

Not more than 5-10 feet, max, probably less.

Think about it - if they are tracking an individual's chips at the table or cage, it has to be less than 12-18 inches, otherwise, it would get interference from neighboring players.

There are 2 types of RFID - passive and active.

The active ones have batteries in them, such as EZPass. They are bigger and have a greater range. If you've ever noticed the sensors at toll lanes on bridges or the NJ Tpk/AC Expwy, etc, they are ~20 feet high and can record vehicles moving 65+ mph.

The passive ones are smaller and have a more limited range. They just reflect back the transmitted signal, with some alterations. There was one in my ski pass this season, and the sensors at the lift lines were about 3 feet overhead.

That goes against what I've read about RFID chips. The RIO uses an RFID chip in employee name tags to track their locations within the casino, so they obviously have capacity to track them at a distance. UPS uses RFID chips to track their trucks and drivers.
I've seen on tv where they track a hi-roller across the casino floor by the chips in his pocket.

 

[21forme]

That goes against what I've read about RFID chips. The RIO uses an RFID chip in employee name tags to track their locations within the casino, so they obviously have capacity to track them at a distance. UPS uses RFID chips to track their trucks and drivers.
I've seen on tv where they track a hi-roller across the casino floor by the chips in his pocket.

You may be confusing RFID and GPS in the case of UPS. Many businesses vehicles (trucks, taxis, etc.) use GPS to track their employees on the road.

In the case of the Rio tracking employees, they can't track anyone step by step, as the case with GPS or satellite, but only can track them as they pass an RFID transceiver, which could be located in doorways, poles, ceilings, etc.