Rudest backoff yet

[Dyepaintball12]

You know, you guys told me about aria before my trip, and i gotta say i didnt hve a problem there. I was notibly social with the pit, i spread really agressively at the 6 deck games upto three hands of chunky green, I played there a lot in my 10 day stay, but got nothing negetive or even any sign of heat, even after splitting tens at a DD game right in front of the PB

The Ceasars backoff was rediculous , it involved many angry people, two seperate confrontations....(at two different pits :devil: ) at one point handcuffs were shown, passages read, I think maybe 12-15 people were involved in all including a security gaurd on a security bicycle complete with led headlight follwing me to the sidewalk outside the building.

Let them handcuff you! False Arrest = +EV.

 

[FLASH1296]

Perhaps you meant it "tongue in cheek", but such a charge as "false arrest"
cannot "stand up" in a courtroom, as long as there is any justification
for it; meaning that the burden of "proof" is not a factor; just some (almost
any) suspicion or indication of some wrongdoing, e.g. an employee saying that
someone "looked" guilty as he was just standing around and his pants pockets
seemed to be unusually bulging, and on the last shift, someone reported a theft
of a clutch purse.

False Arrest is actually a measure to grant resource to someone who asserts
that they have been ARBITRARILY arrested, in what is generally a civil rights
violation.

 

[swamper]

This thread has slightly added to my paranoia.

 

[FLASH1296]

Until you have been trespassed, harassed, threatened, followed in cars, etc. you have something to think about.

"Cautionary tales" these are. Do not be paranoid. Be cautious and careful. Think before you act.

If you keep your avarice in check, you may never experience these nightmares.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Let them handcuff you! False Arrest = +EV.

I don't fully agree, don't let them handcuff you and take you out of the view of the cameras where you won't be able to get the vial of crack out of your pocket before the police come. These people know all about false arrest and will cover their own asses at all costs. CYA is job #1 in any kind of police or security work, and you will have no chance of proving you were unlawfully detained once they plant something on you.

If they try to handcuff you or sequester you out of view, fight, but don't fight or run until that is clearly what is happening. When the police come (you will definitely be arrested, but you have a better chance of legally acceptable treatment from the police) ask to be taken to the hospital for the back and neck injuries you sustained in the fight.

 

[WRX]

To me, being injured = negative EV, even if I get paid some money later.

 

[BJgenius007]

This thread has slightly added to my paranoia.

I am sure LV Strip casinos only back off people who spread $100 to $800 on their DD BJ. For people who play red/green chips or shoe game only, you have nothing to worry about. I play at green chip level, never experience any heat I read here. NEVER. EVER.

 

[NightOwl]

I am sure LV Strip casinos only back off people who spread $100 to $800 on their DD BJ. For people who play red/green chips or shoe game only, you have nothing to worry about. I play at green chip level, never experience any heat I read here. NEVER. EVER.

Have you ever played in Reno?

 

[johndoe]

I am sure LV Strip casinos only back off people who spread $100 to $800 on their DD BJ. For people who play red/green chips or shoe game only, you have nothing to worry about. I play at green chip level, never experience any heat I read here. NEVER. EVER.

I hope you're joking. LV strip joints will most certainly back off green chippers on the shoe games. Certainly not as quickly as on DD. They've been very polite in my experience, however.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

I hope you're joking. LV strip joints will most certainly back off green chippers on the shoe games. Certainly not as quickly as on DD. They've been very polite in my experience, however.

You should have seen how I got treated playing 6:5 on the Strip! Got hosed around all night.

 

[HockeXpert]

I am sure LV Strip casinos only back off people who spread $100 to $800 on their DD BJ. For people who play red/green chips or shoe game only, you have nothing to worry about. I play at green chip level, never experience any heat I read here. NEVER. EVER.

Sure, eh? Care to wager?:laugh:

 

[alwayssplitaces]

My only backoff on my last trip to Vegas was at the Gold Coast right after I got 2 queens of hearts and a hand pay on my Lucky Ladies bet. I was backed off right at the end of that hand. The pit boss was nice about it, and I felt like he didn't want to back me off but he was forced to. Maybe some pit bosses used to be counters, and so they'd go easier on the backoffs.

In most (non-casino) games, you get rewarded for beating the game. Casinos try to encourage you to devise a system to beat their games. But in blackjack, if you prove that you can beat the game, casinos don't want you to play anymore.

 

[paddywhack]

In most (non-casino) games, you get rewarded for beating the game. Casinos try to encourage you to devise a system to beat their games. But in blackjack, if you prove that you can beat the game, casinos don't want you to play anymore.

And that's NEWS to you???

 

[Dyepaintball12]

I don't understand.

If I am sitting there quietly, counting cards, and all of a sudden security comes up to me, handcuffs me and backrooms me, it is NOT false arrest?

That seems shocking.

 

[johndoe]

I don't understand.

If I am sitting there quietly, counting cards, and all of a sudden security comes up to me, handcuffs me and backrooms me, it is NOT false arrest?

That seems shocking.

Whether it is or is not false arrest is very different from whether you have any realistic prospect of recourse against these actions. You very well might (per CAA), but it's a tough battle that you can't just assume you'll win.

 

[FLASH1296]

It is False Arrest if they take the position that you were handcuffed because you were an Advantage Player - but NOT False Arrest if they claim that they believed that you had a BJ computer hidden in your shoe or an iPhone (with a particular app installed) in your pocket, or had stolen chips, or you were a bail-jumper, etc..

An arrest, even a "citizen's arrest", does not carry a burden of proof — only "reasonable suspicion"

However, if they refuse to summon the police, with reasonable dispatch, upon your demand … than you have a CIVIL CASE charging Unlawful Imprisonment. A criminal case would never pass muster with a Grand Jury, so an Attorney General is unlikely to present the case to a Grand Jury in the first place.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

It is False Arrest if they take the position that you were handcuffed because you were an Advantage Player - but NOT False Arrest if they claim that they believed that you had a BJ computer hidden in your shoe or an iPhone (with a particular app installed) in your pocket, or had stolen chips, or you were a bail-jumper, etc..

An arrest, even a "citizen's arrest", does not carry a burden of proof — only "reasonable suspicion"

However, if they refuse to summon the police, with reasonable dispatch, upon your demand … than you have a CIVIL CASE charging Unlawful Imprisonment. A criminal case would never pass muster with a Grand Jury, so an Attorney General is unlikely to present the case to a Grand Jury in the first place.

Not exactly- a cop needs probable cause (PC) to arrest you. PC is usually defined as that the evidence suggests the person probably committed any of a set of specific crimes. "Reasonable suspicion" gives a cop the ability to initiate or continue an investigation, but not make an arrest until he finds PC.

I suppose just being at a gaming table gives casino security the right to observe you, and perhaps question you, but they have to see something that an appropriately-trained person would think makes it 51% certain that you are committing a crime in order to detain you, and then only for the purpose of turning you over to the police.

 

[moo321]

It is False Arrest if they take the position that you were handcuffed because you were an Advantage Player - but NOT False Arrest if they claim that they believed that you had a BJ computer hidden in your shoe or an iPhone (with a particular app installed) in your pocket, or had stolen chips, or you were a bail-jumper, etc..

An arrest, even a "citizen's arrest", does not carry a burden of proof — only "reasonable suspicion"

However, if they refuse to summon the police, with reasonable dispatch, upon your demand … than you have a CIVIL CASE charging Unlawful Imprisonment. A criminal case would never pass muster with a Grand Jury, so an Attorney General is unlikely to present the case to a Grand Jury in the first place.

I'm sorry. I don't like to bust people out on the internet, because it's usually not that important. But this is pretty much all patently false, and I think it hurts the community of AP's for them to think they can be arrested by a security guard.


They absolutely cannot detain you just because they "think" something happened: http://www.bj21.com/advantageplay/lawandtaxes/falsearrest.shtml

There has to have been an "actual" crime that you personally witnessed, or an "actual" crime that you did not witness, but you have reasonable cause to believe it was done by the person you are arresting. If there is no "actual" crime, there is no defense of reasonable cause.

ALL arrests carry a burden of proof, even for police officers. And the burden of proof is much higher for private citizens: there has to have been an actual crime committed. If there's no computer on your person, and the tape doesn't show a crime being committed, they have falsely imprisoned you.



Think about what you're saying: there is no burden of proof for an arrest? So, I can just walk down the street and pull a gun on someone because they're black, citizen's arrest them, and the cops won't do anything to me? Maybe I'll get hit with a tort in civil court? No way! I'd be in jail in a heartbeat.

 

[moo321]

I suppose just being at a gaming table gives casino security the right to observe you, and perhaps question you, but they have to see something that an appropriately-trained person would think makes it 51% certain that you are committing a crime in order to detain you, and then only for the purpose of turning you over to the police.

The police have this burden of proof. Security has to show an actual crime has been committed, AND that they think you did it. i.e. they find marked cards in play, and think you marked them.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

The police have this burden of proof. Security has to show an actual crime has been committed, AND that they think you did it. i.e. they find marked cards in play, and think you marked them.

This varies wildly from state to state. In some states no one but a peace officer can detain any person under any circumstances (security guards cannot cuff anyone, ever) and in some states various functions of private employment have varying detention powers. But I believe probable cause is the same thing for everyone, being it's what a prosecutor needs to prosecute you, and by extension, what a police officer needs to arrest you and what a private citizen needs to suspect someone of a crime. A cop would need evidence of marked cards too and some compelling reason to believe you did it before he can arrest you for marking cards.

Best to leave these details to the lawyers.