Should I try to recruit this Kid

[Dyepaintball12]

Hey,

I go to Michigan State, and I have started a team and gotten funding and such and have several players.

However, I am always looking for more, so I always take an interest in people around me talking about Blackjack. (I am a Hospitality Business Major so it happens alot)

Anyway, in my Club Operations class (awful by the way), this kid next to me see's me reading the book "Winner Take All" about Wynn, Kerkorian, and Lovemann and how they compete to own Vegas.

So the kid tells me how he loves blackjack, plays all the time and plays anywhere from $50-$300 a hand, and won $14,000 playing on-line last summer.

He plays at a casino that I know is all CSMs, so I asked what he thought about them, and he said "I don't mind; all the casinos are switching to them".

So, at this point I am debating whether to ask him to play with me.

My thoughts:

1) He is familair with Blackjack and basic strategy, so yes.

2) He doesn't count b/c he plays on CSMs and on-line (NOT bonus hustling). This means he has played for 2+ years, with only BS and never decided to learn to count and is a reckless gambler. (said he bets $50 to start and goes up to $300 if he feels the table is hot)

Is this kid just a gambler who I should leave alone and just teach someone else or do you think he just didnt care to learn counting?


Thanks,

David

 

[ccibball50]

You would have to get to know him better in my opinion. You have to know if he is trustworthy first of all, next he has to be someone dedicated with a desire to learn and make money based on math and no emotion or feel. In my experience, I have recruited about 5 players and what I have learned is give them a book to read, or better yet tell them to purchase a book and read it. See how fast they read the book. If they do not have it read in a week, drop them right then and there. If they said they read it, quiz them a bit to see if they actually read the entire book. See if they keep calling and talking blackjack like a hobbie that they really want to learn. If they do not fit all of this, then drop them. In my experience it is almost impossible to persuade someone to become a counter. They have to want and breath card counting. Introduce it to them and let them take the initiative, but don't tell them what you are doing.

 

[EasyRhino]

At first blush, sounds like too much of a gambler. Betting a couple hundred bucks a hand? A college kid? Who really DOES that ****?

 

[SD Padres]

I would ask myself why he has not had the desire to learn to count and take it to the next level. Sounds like a reckless gambler to me. But, you would probably need to get to know him better to arrive at that conclusion.

 

[shadroch]

Sounds like a bullshitter to me. Any of the mathathletes want to take a shot at the chances of a BS $50-300 bettor clearing $14Gs from an on-line casino.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Sounds like a bullshitter to me. Any of the mathathletes want to take a shot at the chances of a BS $50-300 bettor clearing $14Gs from an on-line casino.

Much more possible than a $50-300 player losing $14K at the table playing with a 1.5% advantage, and losing 47 big bets isn't that hard for a counter to do. So if he's BS'ing it's for some reason other than that.

 

[ihate17]

Forget him

If what he told you is true (I find it doubtful) then his whole makeup about gambling would have to be completely turned around. If what he told you is not true, you have a lier.

Someone who is willing to play online beyond bonus hustling and play CSM's at casinos is nothing but a gambler playing games where the house has an edge that can not be overcome. He, besides being familar with blackjack, appears to me to be exactly the kind of person you do not want.

ihate17

 

[rukus]

why post your school and class schedule? not vital to the post, protect yourself and any team you may be forming, damn it!

 

[callipygian]

Any of the mathathletes want to take a shot at the chances of a BS $50-300 bettor clearing $14Gs from an on-line casino.

Mathletes!

 

[nottooshabby]

.

 

[moo321]

I think you should recruit him. Just spend plenty of time working with him, explaining the difference between gambling and... investing. Or whatever you'll call it.

 

[standard toaster]

I think you should recruit him. Just spend plenty of time working with him, explaining the difference between gambling and... investing. Or whatever you'll call it.

remember if he still gives into his gut shot about a hot table the flow and disregard your strategy and cant handle betting min you gotta get rid of him

 

[mjbballar23]

dont recruit him. Hes a huge gambler that likely doesnt have the discipline to be a true advantage player. I have tried to teach gamblers to become APs and they might do alright at first but they always trend back to their superstitious ways. It takes a very specific type of personality to become an AP. In my experience prospective-APs are the types of people that wont be at a casino "just for fun."

 

[FLASH1296]

I concur with mjbballer23.

Do not recruit anyone with gambling tendencies.

Be like the M.I.T. team that recruited [almost exclusively] students who had never gambled.

 

[ihate17]

example of why I agree, do not recruit this guy

dont recruit him. Hes a huge gambler that likely doesnt have the discipline to be a true advantage player. I have tried to teach gamblers to become APs and they might do alright at first but they always trend back to their superstitious ways. It takes a very specific type of personality to become an AP. In my experience prospective-APs are the types of people that wont be at a casino "just for fun."

I have had some great days doing a two person team at a few casinos with my niece in the past, so when a friend of mine, who gambles, approached me about teaching him to count and other AP things, I probably jumped at teaching him faster than I should have.
Here is a guy who gets emotional and steams when he takes a bad beat or two, believes people coming in, going out, going from one to two hands destroy the Mystical Magical Flow of the Cards. He thinks ASM machines set up the cards so they know to give the dealer a 5 when hitting 16 during the times he bets big. He will remember every single time the dealer draws out on him but never remembers the times when the dealer busts when starting with 11 or has a 17 with a 10 showing and he had 18.
I was smart enough not to invest too much of my time. He is of above average inteligence so I first gave him a basic strategy card and later tested and retested him on it. Eventually he mastered basic strategy and I gave him Professional Blackjack as a gift. He never read it but claimed he was ready to count at a casino.
We go to the casino and often I just watched him play and counted down the shoe. When tested, he had was generally no closer to the real count than someone guessing based upon the last hand or two dealt. He threw away basic strategy never hitting his 12vs2 once it busted once, and getting overly aggressive when down, often doing things like doubling 8 vs 3 in a negative count.
We still sometimes go to the casino together and he still claims he counts but it is purely bull and he has modified basic strategy to the point where he will never bust vs a dealer 2 or 3 (he plays the rest correctly including the soft 18 plays.) Since he never read the book he plays no indices though I have explained to him often why earlier I made some of the deviations from BS that I had made. He will walk away from a high count often when he takes a loss and will often then try to make it up in a bad count with some huge bets.
The last time we played on the same table he watched as I wonged out on a negative shoe and then he put a huge bet out in a very negative count. As fate would have it, he got a 9 vs 3 at a count where the indice is not to double but just hit. I tell him not to double this big bet but he does and hits a stiff only to watch the dealer hit a few low cards to take his money.

Still a friend but he just can not understand why he is a consistant loser on the tables while he often watches me come off with a good win. I have given up on giving him any help and simply given him the advice that perhaps he is too emotional to be a good blackjack player and he should give it up.

He will never be an AP, he is a superstitious, emotional gambler who if he does not graduate to higher stakes will not wipe himself out but will always be a loser against a casino. I think the recuriting of a guy like this just does not work.

ihate17

 

[MAZ]

I have had some great days doing a two person team at a few casinos with my niece in the past, so when a friend of mine, who gambles, approached me about teaching him to count and other AP things, I probably jumped at teaching him faster than I should have.
Here is a guy who gets emotional and steams when he takes a bad beat or two, believes people coming in, going out, going from one to two hands destroy the Mystical Magical Flow of the Cards. He thinks ASM machines set up the cards so they know to give the dealer a 5 when hitting 16 during the times he bets big. He will remember every single time the dealer draws out on him but never remembers the times when the dealer busts when starting with 11 or has a 17 with a 10 showing and he had 18.
I was smart enough not to invest too much of my time. He is of above average inteligence so I first gave him a basic strategy card and later tested and retested him on it. Eventually he mastered basic strategy and I gave him Professional Blackjack as a gift. He never read it but claimed he was ready to count at a casino.
We go to the casino and often I just watched him play and counted down the shoe. When tested, he had was generally no closer to the real count than someone guessing based upon the last hand or two dealt. He threw away basic strategy never hitting his 12vs2 once it busted once, and getting overly aggressive when down, often doing things like doubling 8 vs 3 in a negative count.
We still sometimes go to the casino together and he still claims he counts but it is purely bull and he has modified basic strategy to the point where he will never bust vs a dealer 2 or 3 (he plays the rest correctly including the soft 18 plays.) Since he never read the book he plays no indices though I have explained to him often why earlier I made some of the deviations from BS that I had made. He will walk away from a high count often when he takes a loss and will often then try to make it up in a bad count with some huge bets.
The last time we played on the same table he watched as I wonged out on a negative shoe and then he put a huge bet out in a very negative count. As fate would have it, he got a 9 vs 3 at a count where the indice is not to double but just hit. I tell him not to double this big bet but he does and hits a stiff only to watch the dealer hit a few low cards to take his money.

Still a friend but he just can not understand why he is a consistant loser on the tables while he often watches me come off with a good win. I have given up on giving him any help and simply given him the advice that perhaps he is too emotional to be a good blackjack player and he should give it up.

He will never be an AP, he is a superstitious, emotional gambler who if he does not graduate to higher stakes will not wipe himself out but will always be a loser against a casino. I think the recuriting of a guy like this just does not work.

ihate17

This crap is nonsense. Besides the diaper crew of people that are not 21 or just turning it, and heard of the movie 21 or read jackass Mezrichs books before stepping foot into a casino for real, most of you "experts" played BJ without an advantage for a while before thinking you learned something. Yeah I agree that finding some new meat with no bad habits is a good way to start, but who the hell here fits that bill. Its funny how most of you forget that you all were once just gamblers. But since you read a few books and brushed up on your math, you can look down at those that haven't read the same stupid books as you. Guesss what, thats how I feel about most of you. I know most of you can't play this game worth a lick but can bloviate about it all day long like a pro. I can see who is real, who is trying but still sucks, and who really just want to be somebody by posting thousands of posts on a BJ message board. If you want my advice, don't recruit the kid. Not because he can't be a good AP, but because you aren't worthy of making the decision whether he is or not.

 

[Kasi]

Is this kid just a gambler who I should leave alone and just teach someone else or do you think he just didnt care to learn counting?
David

Sure, why not. His mind is a tabula rosa you can write on what you want.

Plus, he's got $14K to invest lol.

 

[Kasi]

Sounds like a bullshitter to me. Any of the mathathletes want to take a shot at the chances of a BS $50-300 bettor clearing $14Gs from an on-line casino.

While completely possible and believable, especially if adequately capitalized, after all some internet games are so good they don't exist in real life and have HA's approaching 0, I'd probably assume he's using a little poetic license lol.

Also, internet games that are shuffled after every round ensure that comp-dependent strategy is always correct and so is BS. Very reliable in that you never have to worry about playing extreme counts that will evntually avg out.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

... Guesss what, thats how I feel about most of you. I know most of you can't play this game worth a lick but can bloviate about it all day long like a pro. I can see who is real, who is trying but still sucks, and who really just want to be somebody by posting thousands of posts on a BJ message board. ...

Can you see through the cards when you ingest certain illicit substances?

 

[creeping panther]

Rotflmao

This crap is nonsense. Besides the diaper crew of people that are not 21 or just turning it, and heard of the movie 21 or read jackass Mezrichs books before stepping foot into a casino for real, most of you "experts" played BJ without an advantage for a while before thinking you learned something. Yeah I agree that finding some new meat with no bad habits is a good way to start, but who the hell here fits that bill. Its funny how most of you forget that you all were once just gamblers. But since you read a few books and brushed up on your math, you can look down at those that haven't read the same stupid books as you. Guesss what, thats how I feel about most of you. I know most of you can't play this game worth a lick but can bloviate about it all day long like a pro. I can see who is real, who is trying but still sucks, and who really just want to be somebody by posting thousands of posts on a BJ message board. If you want my advice, don't recruit the kid. Not because he can't be a good AP, but because you aren't worthy of making the decision whether he is or not.

Maz,

Another classic:grin: You are one Bad Ass MOFU :laugh:

CP