Shuffle tracking poker

[alwayssplitaces]

If I remember what I muck, the flop, turn, and river, and those cards end up in the bottom half of the deck, they won't be played in the next round. I noticed that I'm usually right and I don't see those cards. In a home game, one of the dealers does a poor job shuffling, the muck is placed on the top, then one riffle and a cut (so the muck ends up on the bottom). I feel that it's unethical to do this shuffle-tracking, but the AP in me wants to take advantage of this. Same thing if the sloppy dealer shows the bottom card. I've folded queens preflop after a large raise when I saw a queen in the last round and knew that a queen was in the muck from the last round, and I didn't see any aces last round (I'd be drawing to 1 out and an ace is more likely to appear on the flop or in other's hands). There ended up being an ace on the flop and someone won with ace-king. If I hadn't seen the queen, I would have called the preflop raise and folded to a large bet on the flop. Now I just feel guilty about taking advantage of the information others may not have. In blackjack, I don't feel guilty using all information I see since I'm only beating the faceless house.

 

[MangoJ]

Couldn't see anything wrong about this play. Maybe you want to sit next to him so you can cut the bottom into play. Knowing which cards are likely to come is a large advantage (even if you don't know if they will hit the board of are already in a hand).

 

[alwayssplitaces]

The same person deals every hand, cuts it himself, and he doesn't play. The players tip the dealer. The game is full of donks so they are anyway losing players.

If I see the hole cards of the player next to me I would check it down if I'm heads up even if I know I have the winner.

 

[zengrifter]

I feel that it's unethical to do this shuffle-tracking - I just feel guilty about taking advantage of the information others may not have.

Huh? zg

 

[Sucker]

I would check it down if I'm heads up even if I know I have the winner.

Huh???

 

[Machinist]

Hey Aces,,,,,you and Moo321 should get togetherand discuss the finer points of sneaking a peek or two.

Machinist

 

[aslan]

Hey Aces,,,,,you and Moo321 should get togetherand discuss the finer points of sneaking a peek or two.

Machinist

View attachment 7644 I don't believe in peeking, but if the feller next to me does not protect his hand and my eye just happens to see what it is, well, dang, that's his problem, his mistake, not mine, and he may have to pay for it. It's all part of the game. Now I don't use no periscope devices or stuff like that, jus' happen to see sumpin from time to time. No harm in that. It's all good. :dog:

 

[moo321]

What is the shuffle? Is there one riffle and then a cut? If so, I wouldn't play because I'd worry about cheating.

A poker shuffle should be 2 riffles, strip, riffle.

 

[alwayssplitaces]

It's a riffle and a cut. Considering I've been winning, I doubt I'm being cheated. If I do start to lose in abnormal ways there, I'll stop playing (such as too many unlikely bad beats in a short time)

 

[alwayssplitaces]

Huh???

It's the right thing to do. I'd still have an advantage if I see another player's cards and know they're bluffing, I can call it with impunity.

 

[Sucker]

It's the right thing to do. I'd still have an advantage if I see another player's cards and know they're bluffing, I can call it with impunity.

Giving free cards is the right thing to do???? I don't THINK so!

 

[alwayssplitaces]

Giving free cards is the right thing to do???? I don't THINK so!

It's the morally right thing to do, after agreeing with the other player. Can't let a stupid mistake like that cost someone their stack.

 

[moo321]

What the hell is wrong with the people on this board?! We're playing hole cards in a non-house game? Someone PLEASE give me any explanation how this is different from outright thievery?

 

[aslan]

What the hell is wrong with the people on this board?! We're playing hole cards in a non-house game? Someone PLEASE give me any explanation how this is different from outright thievery?

Do you mean that you believe that shuffle tracking card sequences or specific cards is cheating when it's a player's hole card, but not cheating when it's the house's holecard? Please explain.

 

[MangoJ]

Do you mean that you believe that shuffle tracking card sequences or specific cards is cheating when it's a player's hole card, but not cheating when it's the house's holecard? Please explain.

The difference is only "moral" - if any.
On the poker table the dealer makes the error, but the player is paying.

But the same thing is true on the blackjack table. Still the dealer makes the error, and still the ploppies are paying for it (without ploppies playing blackjack, the house would not offer this game).

Personally I see no difference.

 

[moo321]

I'm not even having this argument, any shuffle tracking, hole-carding, or sequencing in a poker game is totally unethical. You're taking money from people who expect a fair game, and aren't trying to do anything to gain an unfair advantage over you like the casino is.

 

[aslan]

The difference is only "moral" - if any.
On the poker table the dealer makes the error, but the player is paying.

But the same thing is true on the blackjack table. Still the dealer makes the error, and still the ploppies are paying for it (without ploppies playing blackjack, the house would not offer this game).

Personally I see no difference.

Let's say you are playing online and suddenly you can see what everyone in the game has in their hands. That is "house error". That, however, does not make it any less a case of cheating, if you take advantage of that windfall of unintended knowledge.

 

[MangoJ]

Let's say you are playing online and suddenly you can see what everyone in the game has in their hands. That is "house error". That, however, does not make it any less a case of cheating, if you take advantage of that windfall of unintended knowledge.

If you would see the opponents hands, and you decide to fold because of that - are you cheating ? You decided not to play that information, but technical you still took the advantage.

It boils down to the definition of cheating. In my moral standards, cheating is not the usage of unintended knowledge, it's the process of acquiring that information.

 

[aslan]

If you would see the opponents hands, and you decide to fold because of that - are you cheating ? You decided not to play that information, but technical you still took the advantage.

It boils down to the definition of cheating. In my moral standards, cheating is not the usage of unintended knowledge, it's the process of acquiring that information.

That is called rationalization. The "honest" man would alert the site operator about what happened, perhaps keeping others from being cheated, if perchance someone else has received the same view of all the hands. The "good" man in the Christian sense is the "other-directed" man. He loves his neighbor, even his enemy, and will do what is in his power to keep evil from befalling him. I guess that's one of the reasons so many people hate Christians. Playing at an advantage and "taking advantage of someone" are two different things. goody2shoes

 

[alwayssplitaces]

Someone from Ultimate Bet intentionally got access to all the player's hole cards and used the information to his maximum advantage. Since he was so obvious, he was caught.