single-deck 7,7 vs 10

[rrwoods]

[ i'm asking a lot of questions... ]

No, this isn't the "why do you stand" question -- I understand all that math perfectly.

But the basic strategy table for single-deck 7,7 vs 10 (under S17, DAS, LS rules) shows Surrender or Stand. When could you possibly get the chance to stand?

You can't have split if you're following correct strategy, since the table doesn't say to split, so a 7,7 has to be your first two cards. The only time you'd stand is if you couldn't surrender -- which is never.

 

[shadroch]

The majority of casinos in America do not offer surrender, so stand is the correct move.

 

[james2009]

single deck 7,7 vs 10

"The only time you'd stand is if you couldn't surrender -- which is never. "

Assume you did not know for sure you could surrender in all casinos in the world so you tell the play to stand. No?

 

[bj bob]

[ i'm asking a lot of questions... ]

No, this isn't the "why do you stand" question -- I understand all that math perfectly.

But the basic strategy table for single-deck 7,7 vs 10 (under S17, DAS, LS rules) shows Surrender or Stand. When could you possibly get the chance to stand?

You can't have split if you're following correct strategy, since the table doesn't say to split, so a 7,7 has to be your first two cards. The only time you'd stand is if you couldn't surrender -- which is never.

The "surrender" option is the priority play in BS. That's the first thing you you need to attempt. If the rules prohibit it, then you follow plan B, which is to stand. There are many other examples of this in the BS charts, most occurring in the soft doubles sections under A-7, A-8. You will notice "DS" boxes which mean double if allowed, stand if not.
In the real world though, the concept of SD, S-17, DAS, LS doesn't exist. You may find one of the above, such as LS at the Alamo in Sparks, but even two out of the three went away with 100% pen and dealer (visual) peek.

 

[KenSmith]

Yes, I can perhaps see that it seems extraneous to show "Rs" there. Compare this with the BSE advice on 16vT for example, which is Surrender/Stand. There, two card 16s should be hit, but it is assumed that since you requested rules including surrender that any non-surrenderable 16s will be of 3 or more cards, so you should stand.

Now, for 77vT in single deck, I was faced with two possible choices. Show "R" meaning surrender if able else hit, or "Rs" meaning surrender if able else stand. "Rs" seemed more appropriate, although you are right in pointing out that the stand designation is meaningless as it will never be used.

 

[KenSmith]

Oh, one more thing. Single deck S17 DAS LS games are alive and well, occasionally surfacing on video blackjack machines. Yes, usually at even money blackjack, but fortunately, not always. :grin:

 

[bj bob]

Oh, one more thing. Single deck S17 DAS LS games are alive and well, occasionally surfacing on video blackjack machines. Yes, usually at even money blackjack, but fortunately, not always. :grin:

You're gonna have to let me in (via PM) on that little jewel, Ken. I'll owe you one.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Yes, I can perhaps see that it seems extraneous to show "Rs" there. Compare this with the BSE advice on 16vT for example, which is Surrender/Stand. There, two card 16s should be hit, but it is assumed that since you requested rules including surrender that any non-surrenderable 16s will be of 3 or more cards, so you should stand.

Now, for 77vT in single deck, I was faced with two possible choices. Show "R" meaning surrender if able else hit, or "Rs" meaning surrender if able else stand. "Rs" seemed more appropriate, although you are right in pointing out that the stand designation is meaningless as it will never be used.

You mean hit will never be used, right?

(You do hit 77 vs. 10 in slightly negative counts.)

 

[bj bob]

You mean hit will never be used, right?

(You do hit 77 vs. 10 in slightly negative counts.)

I was thinking that too, Monk, but we're talking strictly BS here, therefore the count is unknown.

 

[KenSmith]

To be clear, neither hit nor stand will be used, since we are talking about basic strategy in a single deck game with surrender available. But at least by showing RS as the strategy it is correct in both ways. If surrender weren't available, the basic strategy player would stand with 77vT.

 

[sagefr0g]

also couldn't one consider conditions of other than 7,7vs10 (ie the first two cards dealt) where one or more of the sevens is actually composed of small cards such as we could have beyond the first two cards dealt sort of thing? :whip:
like maybe some game would allow late surrender on the first two cards but not after one receives more cards, maybe?