That is tuff.
So I split Aces and...
- Thread starter 21forme
- Start date
That is tuff.
All a few of us, or at least me, are trying to say is the rule that allows one to re-split aces up to four hands, for a Basic Strategy player in an 8D game, might be worth an extra 0.0008 adavantage.
Alot of the reason why, as Automatic Monkey pointed out, is the opportunity to do so doesn't present itself very often, although when it does, sure, it's a good thing, as you point out.
And, if you want to call that gain "huge" or "awesome", fine with me lol.
And it does represent a good percentage reduction in the overall house edge probably.
So no big deal, just trying to put it in perspective so you don't maybe go driving down the road for an extra 30 minutes, spending $6 in gas back and forth, to play $25/hand for 5 hours because it's a "better game" when you probably are better off staying where you are in a game that has all other rules equal except for that one even assuming betting at the same amount let alone a smaller amount.
Not at all sure of the effect of the rule to a card-counter.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
Now you shall be! The RSA rule is worth a 25% increase in SCORE to a typical counter, while the LS rule is worth about 50% all other things kept equal.
One of the reasons why LS is more important is that you put less money at risk in order to use it, while RSA puts more money at risk. Being risk of ruin is what limits our betting when we have an advantage, a risk-reducing play like surrender will allow us to bet more when we have an advantage.
Well thanks!
Wow 25%. Never would have guessed that.
What is your definition of a "typical counter" just out of curiosity? You talking a play-all multi-deck game?
But basically you're saying you'd make 25% more dollars an hour?
jack.jackson
Well-Known Member
RESPLITTING of aces,one deck +.03
RESPLITTING of aces, two deck +.04
RESPLITTING of ace, four deck +.05
RESPLITTING of aces, 6and8deck,+.06
INFINITE DECK +.08
Not sure, but I would think for a counter this is even more valuable since we would be catching more tens on big bets.
Note: Though we get a pair of aces alot less often in a single deck game, opposed to a 6D game. Your more likely to win with a pair of aces in a single deck game.
As well as not playing at a neg count.
SecurityRisk
Well-Known Member
That's not always possible. The count can be positive before the hands are dealt, but negative by the time it's your turn to play.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
Or you could be playing a pitch game, where you have to play all counts.
Resplitting aces is a very powerful play, but you can play thousands of hands before you get a chance to use it even once and it isn't helping you at all in those intervals. Surrender plays aren't nearly as powerful but you'll be using them every shoe.
S17 vs. H17 also benefits the player but again, only when the dealer has a soft 17 which isn't all that often. At high counts the difference between S17 and H17 becomes marginal, but H17 really hurts the player at low counts (because the dealer needs several low cards in addition to one ace to make his hand) which we aren't playing in shoe games, but we must at pitch. This is why S17 DD games are a good thing to play, and you won't find a S17 SD game anymore.
SilentBob420BMFJ
Banned
Harrahs 10 years ago I am 3 rd base and playing 2 hands . I get a apir of aces on both hand and the dealer is showing a 6 . My bet was 1,000.00 a hand so I split and have $4,000.00 out . Firstace I get a 2 , second ace i get a 3 , 3rd ace I got a 4 and 4th ace I got a 5 . I am still not worried till the dick shows an ace with his 6 for 17 and I blew $K . What is the odds of that ? Oh well only time it happened .:grin:
:cool2:
did you double all those? thus you should have lost $8000? i think you forgot to type a number when you said "$K"
LS lowers the house edge .005% more than RSA, so its a super small difference
ya, id rather have LS because it reduces variance and is used a lot more, wheras the opposite is true for HSA
dont you mean "reconsider and not split"? i would always split and resplit aces
agreed
i never thot of it like that.. i seriously dont see how LS and RSA have the same effect on the house edge.. i would totally rather have LS, even if RSA lowered the house edge by .1-.15%.. i would like to see a chapter or article on RoR vs advantage, in that i mean things like choosing a worse game that has LS over a game with like a .2% lower house edge that doesnt have LS, because RoR is the only thing stopping card counters from going nuts (that and heat)
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SilentBob420BMFJ
Banned
cause you could only get one card on splitting aces and therefore no chance to double .
oh ok, i got caught up in the RSA thing i assumed damn near everybody was assuming that
Sonny
Well-Known Member
There is a chapter about this in Blackjack Attack. It is the basis behind the SCORE ratings. Check it out.
-Sonny-
Yes that is what I meant!
You have a low count (fewer tens). You get AA against a dealer 10. You could just hit the 2 or 12, or you could put more money out on a hand that is negative to win at best. Why put out more money? Minimize the loss.
That is just the opposite of getting more money on the table against a dealer bust card when you split any two weak cards. You are getting as much money on the table as possible and not betting that your hand is a winner, but that the dealers hand is a BUST!
I think if you don't split it hurts you. The only time you don't split the AA is when the dealer has an A showing AND a low count.
Dealer has to check his ace
When the dealer checks his ace and doesn't have Bj, I always split the aces. He doesn't have Bj and that is in my favor. In a low count I already know he probably has a low soft hand and will have to hit. It is when he shows that 10 up card that I question it.
When the dealer checks his ace and doesn't have Bj, I always split the aces. He doesn't have Bj and that is in my favor. In a low count I already know he probably has a low soft hand and will have to hit. It is when he shows that 10 up card that I question it.
Not sure exactly what you mean by "low count" but I think always split aces in any positive count no matter how low it is.
If the dealer checks for BJ with a 10, and even if he doesn't, I think it's even greatly more unlikely that you would ever want to not split the hand.
If the count is low enough (negative), basing a split decision merely on the fact the dealer did not have BJ with an Ace up would be wrong every once in a while lol. In other words, it depends on the actual count at the time not whether the dealer has a BJ or not on that particular hand.
Guess, overall, I'm confused whether you are counting or not lol.
Basically always split A,A vs 10 or less unless you really know what you are doing. You will almost never be wrong in doing so since negative counts high enough to justify it don't happen very often.
bj bob
Well-Known Member
You've got me scratching my head on that one, Kasi.
Hey - I was confused what he meant by a "low count" too lol.
But, on the off-chance he might have meant a low count that was still positive, I thought I'd throw that in lol.
What I meant was, more specifically, don't hit A,A vs A until TC -4 in multi-deck and more than that in 1D.
And that TC's of -8 and -9 in multideck that would justify hitting A,A vs 8,9,10 don't happen very often so, pretty much, always split.
All in the vain hope that one might get alot more specific than "low" or "if the dealer doesn't have BJ" as a basis for deviating from BS while at the same time seemingly saying they are counting.