Soft Hands

[davethomas]

I was playing a black strategy engine and I was going to stand on soft 18 against like dealer 10, and I was told I was wrong so I look soft hands up, and wondering if this is correct or not?
Soft Hands:
12-17= always hit
18= stand from 2-7, hit from 8-A
19-21= always stand

 

[Canceler]

Soft 18 should be hit vs. 9,T, or A.

I can't help wondering where you looked this up, because a lot of soft hands should be doubled, but you make no mention of that.

 

[cardcounter0]

Here is the link for "THE" basic strategy engine:

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bjbse.php

Amazingly enough, it is on the home page of this very site!
You can configure it for almost any rule set, and it has been proven time and time again, TO BE 100% CORRECT!

Best of all: It is perfectly free, never a charge of any type, no credit card required, you will never worry about being billed, use as often as you like.

NEW! IMPROVED! NOW AVAILABLE IN COLOR!!!!

 

[davethomas]

hey thanks alot, I appreciate it

 

[ihate17]

I was playing a black strategy engine and I was going to stand on soft 18 against like dealer 10, and I was told I was wrong so I look soft hands up, and wondering if this is correct or not?
Soft Hands:
12-17= always hit
18= stand from 2-7, hit from 8-A
19-21= always stand

On soft 12-17 it should say always hit or double.
Soft 18 is a fun hand with loads of decisions. Stay vs 2, Double vs 3-6, stay vs 7,8 and hit vs 9,10 and Ace.

There are slight changes depending upon the game you are playing. Soft doubles are not allowed on certain single deck games (and even a few double deck ones). And there is a certain casino where if you double A,8 and get a 2 the Nevada Gaming shills call it an 11 and not a 21.

 

[Mimosine]

And there is a certain casino where if you double A,8 and get a 2 the Nevada Gaming shills call it an 11 and not a 21.

i would have been furious!

 

[callipygian]

i would have been furious!

I'm pretty sure it's been upheld. The casinos do have a point - if you're restricted to doubling on 9,10, and 11 only, and you double your A8, you're choosing A to be 1. Once you get your 2, it's difficult to justify suddenly counting A to be 11.

That being said, it's a pretty lousy way to make a buck. There are plenty of things the casinos could do to increase their hold and NOT piss people off, why would they make their stand on something that DOES piss people off?

 

[Automatic Monkey]

I'm pretty sure it's been upheld. The casinos do have a point - if you're restricted to doubling on 9,10, and 11 only, and you double your A8, you're choosing A to be 1. Once you get your 2, it's difficult to justify suddenly counting A to be 11.

That being said, it's a pretty lousy way to make a buck. There are plenty of things the casinos could do to increase their hold and NOT piss people off, why would they make their stand on something that DOES piss people off?

I caught a dealer at the cheating Cal-Neva telling a tourist that if he doubles on a soft hand, the ace counts as 11 and he can bust. I also caught a dealer there telling players that if he has a soft 17, he can decide to hit or not based on whether he has the table beat. That place is infamous for old-school dirty tricks.

 

[ihate17]

The shills did uphold it

I'm pretty sure it's been upheld. The casinos do have a point - if you're restricted to doubling on 9,10, and 11 only, and you double your A8, you're choosing A to be 1. Once you get your 2, it's difficult to justify suddenly counting A to be 11.

That being said, it's a pretty lousy way to make a buck. There are plenty of things the casinos could do to increase their hold and NOT piss people off, why would they make their stand on something that DOES piss people off?

Yes, gaming did uphold it and used the exact logic that you used and I agree there is a point. Since the game is double 9,10 and 11 only, I believe this is the only possibility of this happening, that is drawing a 2 to A,8 and 21 becoming only 11.
I have some memory of the original thread when this first took place and the amount of money that was bet was not that large. The bad publicity that this casino has taken because of this incident has probably cost them much more money than the few dollars they made, at least it should.

ihate17

 

[N&B]

cardcounter0:

According to Basic what is the correct play holding 4-5-7 against a dealer face card?

And what does our nice game recommend?

 

[Kasi]

cardcounter0:

According to Basic what is the correct play holding 4-5-7 against a dealer face card?

And what does our nice game recommend?

If your point is the BS engine here, it is based on total-dependent 2-card hands, that's it.

Let Ken correct me if I'm wrong.

It's not composition dependent, even with 2-card hands, let alone 3.

Was that what you meant?

Probably missing something here lol.

:whip: me regardless lmao.

 

[The Kid]

cardcounter0:

According to Basic what is the correct play holding 4-5-7 against a dealer face card?

And what does our nice game recommend?

I read in Blackjack Bluebook II that the recommended play is to stand when your 16 contains a 4 or a 5.

 

[Jeff Dubya]

I'm looking forward to hearing this answer because I think its a trick question.

As mentioned previously, BS only TRULY deals with the first two cards.

But unless I am missing something, whether its 4-5-7 vs. Face or 4-5 vs. Face, it's a hit in either scenario, but probably a statistical loser either way.

 

[Jeff Dubya]

Blackjack Bluebook is a great book and I enjoy Fred Renzey a ton, but those are more advanced plays and would not be considered "basic strategy."

 

[N&B]

Actually, Basic Strategy does deal with 3 card 16 vs. X. You might call it advanced, but it and one other situation are the only times a player will encounter such card dependant variances. The list is therefore small, and can be generally defined in simple terms with a simple rule... like the stand with 4-4, 4-5, or 5-5, or hit if holding a 6 (except 5-5-6). You will find yourself in such a situation more than you care to think about. Personally I have two simple rules: 1) No Surr. Hit 2-card, and stand 3+ card and 2) LS surrender 2-card and stand 3+ card.

Basic Strategy is incomplete without the 3-card 16 vs. 10 rule, its common enough. One should learn it and master it.

 

[Bobaloo]

Deepnet Mentor vs BS Engine: A,8 vs 6 in 8-deck

Ah,,, prolly the answer is obvious and I am just dense but it looks to me like the Basic Strategy Engine on this site calls for doubling A,8 vs 6 in 8-deck, H17, DAS, no Surrender, while Deepnet Mentor's Basic Strategy says to stand on A,8 vs 6 in 8-deck, H17, DAS, DblAny. Is this a discrepancy or am I missing something? Is something wrong with the Deepnet software?

 

[Jeff Dubya]

Basic Strategy is incomplete without the 3-card 16 vs. 10 rule, its common enough. One should learn it and master it.

I would call that advanced play. If it's not on the chart, it's a step up in evolution. Even Renzey call this "Beyond The Basics"

However, it's not just any 3 cards, unless I am confusing what you are talking about with a different rule. I think what we're discussing is the rule of 45, which indicates that on a 3-card 16 if any one of those cards is a 4 or 5 to stand instead of hit.

I also like the Dr. Pepper rule for hands that equal 12.

I know this may sound like splitting hairs and as a relatively inexperienced player I am still very much in my learning process, but if we are truly talking about BASIC STRATEGY the answer will be different.

 

[Canceler]

Ah,,, prolly the answer is obvious and I am just dense but it looks to me like the Basic Strategy Engine on this site calls for doubling A,8 vs 6 in 8-deck, H17, DAS, no Surrender, while Deepnet Mentor's Basic Strategy says to stand on A,8 vs 6 in 8-deck, H17, DAS, DblAny. Is this a discrepancy or am I missing something? Is something wrong with the Deepnet software?

If it's H17, doubling is correct.

 

[Jeff Dubya]

Oh jesus I am stupid. I just read back the thread and realized my error.

When someone wrote 4-5-7, I read that to be a three card hand.

I'm sure that changes just about everything I have read or written since then, I will strive to be more careful about reading and understanding prior to posting.

I'm not a total dumbass, I just come off that way on occasion.

Sorry... :bomb:

 

[GeorgeD]

If I remember right, Renzey talks about composition dependent plays and the 45 rule but says it's only relevant in 1 or 2 deck games. A couple of 4's or 5's showing in an eight deck game has less effect.

The basic strategy in CV Blackjack tells you to never hit a 3 card 16 vs 10.

I would call that advanced play. If it's not on the chart, it's a step up in evolution. Even Renzey call this "Beyond The Basics"

However, it's not just any 3 cards, unless I am confusing what you are talking about with a different rule. I think what we're discussing is the rule of 45, which indicates that on a 3-card 16 if any one of those cards is a 4 or 5 to stand instead of hit.

I also like the Dr. Pepper rule for hands that equal 12.

I know this may sound like splitting hairs and as a relatively inexperienced player I am still very much in my learning process, but if we are truly talking about BASIC STRATEGY the answer will be different.