Some good advice needed

[WRBJ]

I have formed a team, and the team looks like this:

1 dealer
4 players

Yes, we have a dealer on our side.

The rules (for the good tables, the six deck you can not bet over the minumum on if you jump in the middle of a shoe):

2 deck
HIt soft 17
Double 10 & 11 only
no double after split
split up to 4 times
split aces get one card each
no surrender
penetration 75%

The dealer and us have placed a red card in a 2 deck blue card shoe and he has shuffled the way the casino wants him to. Then we track where the red card goes. We have pretty much mastered the shuffle track and know where any card is going to be (atleast in the area of where it is going to be, each shuffle is a little different due to the dealer not getting EXACTLY half the deck or w/e)



Anyway, we were planning on using the hi-lo count system and have the dealer hole card for us and keep the count and wong us in when the count is nice. Then one of us (or two of us occasionally) will go and sit and bet high for two or so hands, and then bet the minumum for the remainder of the shoe (if the count goes bad) and then minumum for the next shoe if the count goes bad. Then get up and leave. This will hopefully cause less suspicion.

So, the questions are:

1. Is using the Hi-Lo system effective? Or should the High Opt II be used? It is is more difficult and i dont know how fast the other players will pick up on it.

2. Is our strategy an ok one? If not, is there a different strategy anyone would suggest?

3. Having the dealer hole card for us is a benefit, but it would only be enough to tell if the down card is a ten or not. The cards have the ten pushed up just enough to see in the ten check slot for ace up hands and so that is all we would be able to see. Is there a basic strategy chart that anyone knows of that would work if we knew if the down card was a ten or not?

4. Any other tips or tricks you think we should use?




Thanks in advance,
WRBJ

 

[UK-21]

So you're going to be playing at a table where you know the dealer and s/he is going to deliberately be sloppy so you can glimpse the hole card? Sounds like collusion to me - even in the UK I think that would constitute a criminal offence and I'm sure in the States get you a one way ticket to the pokey if charged and convicted.

Still, if you get caught you'll have plenty of time to practice.

In the UK the dealer doesn't get a hole card, so the temptation to go down this route just isn't there. Probably just as well I think, as if sloppy table practice resulted in significant leakage of the take dealers would have to be trained to a higher standard, surveillance would have to be greater and life for plain old card counters would be far more difficult.

Good luck, but make sure you've some put aside to meet your bail requirements should you ever need to !



Newb99
UK.

 

[WRBJ]

If using a sloppy dealer is not a good idea, then what about if the dealer peeks at the next card as if going to give it to you and does an action that signals dont hit if the card will bust you.

Then no hole carding and next carding will be in the picture. Yes, this could get the dealer caught and a lot of practice would be required so that the dealer wouldnt be.

So lets say that wishfully thinking the dealer never gets caught. Will the strategy work?

 

[UK-21]

If using a sloppy dealer is not a good idea, then what about if the dealer peeks at the next card as if going to give it to you and does an action that signals dont hit if the card will bust you.

Then no hole carding and next carding will be in the picture. Yes, this could get the dealer caught and a lot of practice would be required so that the dealer wouldnt be.

So lets say that wishfully thinking the dealer never gets caught. Will the strategy work?

Of course it'll work. Cheating generally works, it just carries the risk of getting caught - and when that happens it doesn't work anymore.

I think you're planning a trek over very thin ice. I've answered another thread where you've posted this question. Think carefully before going further . . .

 

[creeping panther]

Wrbj

I have formed a team, and the team looks like this:

1 dealer
4 players

Yes, we have a dealer on our side.

The rules (for the good tables, the six deck you can not bet over the minumum on if you jump in the middle of a shoe):

2 deck
HIt soft 17
Double 10 & 11 only
no double after split
split up to 4 times
split aces get one card each
no surrender
penetration 75%

The dealer and us have placed a red card in a 2 deck blue card shoe and he has shuffled the way the casino wants him to. Then we track where the red card goes. We have pretty much mastered the shuffle track and know where any card is going to be (atleast in the area of where it is going to be, each shuffle is a little different due to the dealer not getting EXACTLY half the deck or w/e)



Anyway, we were planning on using the hi-lo count system and have the dealer hole card for us and keep the count and wong us in when the count is nice. Then one of us (or two of us occasionally) will go and sit and bet high for two or so hands, and then bet the minumum for the remainder of the shoe (if the count goes bad) and then minumum for the next shoe if the count goes bad. Then get up and leave. This will hopefully cause less suspicion.

So, the questions are:

1. Is using the Hi-Lo system effective? Or should the High Opt II be used? It is is more difficult and i dont know how fast the other players will pick up on it.

2. Is our strategy an ok one? If not, is there a different strategy anyone would suggest?

3. Having the dealer hole card for us is a benefit, but it would only be enough to tell if the down card is a ten or not. The cards have the ten pushed up just enough to see in the ten check slot for ace up hands and so that is all we would be able to see. Is there a basic strategy chart that anyone knows of that would work if we knew if the down card was a ten or not?

4. Any other tips or tricks you think we should use?




Thanks in advance,
WRBJ

I doubt any one on this site wants to give you advice in how to break the law. All of you are looking at a felony conviction and destroying your young lives forever.

If you want to play as a team then do so.... within the law.

That DD game with those rules sucks.

CP

 

[Katweezel]

Crossroads

I doubt any one on this site wants to give you advice in how to break the law. All of you are looking at a felony conviction and destroying your young lives forever.

If you want to play as a team then do so.... within the law.

That DD game with those rules sucks.

CP

WRBJ, You just got the best advice possible... Panther advice. Make sure you follow it. You are at a crossroads. Take the correct way. Now you know.

 

[daddybo]

You'll get caught.

I guess you know that collusion is a felony. But the decision to take that risk is yours. The Eye is constantly looking for that kind of thing.

I once tipped a dealer by playing $25 for him a couple of times. Next thing I know he's overpaying me about every third bet. (We're talking $100 a pop). He was good too. So I cut my eyes at him to make sure I was reading him correctly. I was. Then I started playing for him more often and at the best times. After I go home I realized that, this kind of thing is just cheating/stealing. It was very tempting and fun, but very wrong.

About a month later I went back to the same store. Same dealer, same table, same thing happened. This time I slid the overpayment back. He got it. After a while, I looked around and noticed something I hadn't noticed before. There were two security guys camped out behind and to my left, in a slightly elevated position watching the table very hard. They were there for over an hour.

Now what do you think would have happened had we kept playing our little game?

DB

 

[WRBJ]

Ok.

So lets take the illegal buisness out of it. What if we just use the dealer to count the cards and signal us to come in on a good count?

Then, with our rules and team, what would be the best count to use and the best team strategy to work with?

 

[ihate17]

Look up the definition of collusion

Ok.

So lets take the illegal buisness out of it. What if we just use the dealer to count the cards and signal us to come in on a good count?

Then, with our rules and team, what would be the best count to use and the best team strategy to work with?

Your latest idea might be harder for the casino to spot but it is still illegal and it is still collusion. If the casino figures out that the dealer is signaling you guys on a good count to come into the game, you will get busted. With enough video evidence they could probably put on a good showing in a court and you and your dealer friend will get an all expenses paid government vacation.

Beating this game, completely within the rules of the casino and the rules of law, has still gotten several players into legal messes because of casino/police over-reaction and collusion, now your planning to do these things completely illegal, you are just asking for more trouble than you can handle.

For the most dishonest of us with some self control:
Can you play your scam on the casino just once, get enough money for all of you to retire and never do it again? If you answer yes, then next ask yourself if all of your conpirators can do the same thing? If again you answer yes, you might get away with it. Trouble is, and people in law enforcement will back this up, you will repeat this action, you will be greedy (you would never come up with these cheating ideas if you were not), you will not be perfectly careful because you are lazy (if you were not lazy you would not have to look for a quick dishonest hit) and you will be caught.

ihate17

 

[johndoe]

This just seems incredibly stupid in all senses. Why have the dealer count cards? Why not have a spotter? I see only downsides here.

If anything, just have the dealer cut deep, and nothing else. Still risky though if they suspect collusion, but it's at least explainable without it.

 

[RingyDingy]

very bad idea

the risks far outweigh the benefits.

5 people in on a crime, whats the bet at least one of you breaks team rules, has a fight with you, goes to the cops/security works out a deal for immunity and you guys go down and spend a few years with the Butt brothers in a 6x10 room with no windows.

the law is there for a reason, and I for one am thankful of it.

I enjoy card counting and getting my lil slice out of the house, its an awesome challenge, and acts like what your suggesting above just make it all the more harder for us.

cheers

Ringy.

 

[Katweezel]

Deeep pen

Ok.

So lets take the illegal buisness out of it. What if we just use the dealer to count the cards and signal us to come in on a good count?

Then, with our rules and team, what would be the best count to use and the best team strategy to work with?

Get real,WRBJ, You don't have to be an Einstein to figure. The eye or the pit sees that dealer always seems to have a big payout to the same people... There they are again! all on video. Who are they? Our dealer must be crooked.
Learn how to count and get deep pen from your friend, good idea.

 

[bjcounter]

Bring a good padlock to prison with you. You'll need it.......

 

[itakeyourmoney]

If you have a dealer who is good enough to flash the hole card without getting caught then why not just sit down at the beginning of the shoe and raise/lower your bet based on the count? You can just play basic strategy and indexes and sometimes stray from those depending on the hole card (perhaps if you're hitting a hard 17 or 18 when the dealer has a 10 up the pit boss will think you're an idiot even though you really know the dealer has 20).

But like the others have said, if you get caught you're screwed so don't do this.

 

[Renzey]

I have formed a team, and the team looks like this:

1 dealer
4 players

Yes, we have a dealer on our side.

The rules (for the good tables, the six deck you can not bet over the minumum on if you jump in the middle of a shoe):

2 deck
HIt soft 17
Double 10 & 11 only
no double after split
split up to 4 times
split aces get one card each
no surrender
penetration 75%

The dealer and us have placed a red card in a 2 deck blue card shoe and he has shuffled the way the casino wants him to. Then we track where the red card goes. We have pretty much mastered the shuffle track and know where any card is going to be (atleast in the area of where it is going to be, each shuffle is a little different due to the dealer not getting EXACTLY half the deck or w/e)



Anyway, we were planning on using the hi-lo count system and have the dealer hole card for us and keep the count and wong us in when the count is nice. Then one of us (or two of us occasionally) will go and sit and bet high for two or so hands, and then bet the minumum for the remainder of the shoe (if the count goes bad) and then minumum for the next shoe if the count goes bad. Then get up and leave. This will hopefully cause less suspicion.

So, the questions are:

1. Is using the Hi-Lo system effective? Or should the High Opt II be used? It is is more difficult and i dont know how fast the other players will pick up on it.

2. Is our strategy an ok one? If not, is there a different strategy anyone would suggest?

3. Having the dealer hole card for us is a benefit, but it would only be enough to tell if the down card is a ten or not. The cards have the ten pushed up just enough to see in the ten check slot for ace up hands and so that is all we would be able to see. Is there a basic strategy chart that anyone knows of that would work if we knew if the down card was a ten or not?

4. Any other tips or tricks you think we should use?

What ever happened to playing the game by the rules??

 

[Katweezel]

Big Hand gotcha

For WRBJ, The casino Hand has got your dealer, Superman, while you, Batman are next.
2388

 

[1357111317]

Just get this dealer to give good pen and deal really fast. That way everyone wins. The casino will win more cause of more hands/hour and increased pen as well you guys. Is the casino going to get mad at the dealer for dealing fast? Not to mention there is very little chance of getting caught if the dealer is only moving the shuffle card back a couple cards each time.

 

[Martin Gayle]

I have formed a team, and the team looks like this:

1 dealer
4 players

Yes, we have a dealer on our side.

The rules (for the good tables, the six deck you can not bet over the minumum on if you jump in the middle of a shoe):

2 deck
HIt soft 17
Double 10 & 11 only
no double after split
split up to 4 times
split aces get one card each
no surrender
penetration 75%

The dealer and us have placed a red card in a 2 deck blue card shoe and he has shuffled the way the casino wants him to. Then we track where the red card goes. We have pretty much mastered the shuffle track and know where any card is going to be (atleast in the area of where it is going to be, each shuffle is a little different due to the dealer not getting EXACTLY half the deck or w/e)



Anyway, we were planning on using the hi-lo count system and have the dealer hole card for us and keep the count and wong us in when the count is nice. Then one of us (or two of us occasionally) will go and sit and bet high for two or so hands, and then bet the minumum for the remainder of the shoe (if the count goes bad) and then minumum for the next shoe if the count goes bad. Then get up and leave. This will hopefully cause less suspicion.

So, the questions are:

1. Is using the Hi-Lo system effective? Or should the High Opt II be used? It is is more difficult and i dont know how fast the other players will pick up on it.

2. Is our strategy an ok one? If not, is there a different strategy anyone would suggest?

3. Having the dealer hole card for us is a benefit, but it would only be enough to tell if the down card is a ten or not. The cards have the ten pushed up just enough to see in the ten check slot for ace up hands and so that is all we would be able to see. Is there a basic strategy chart that anyone knows of that would work if we knew if the down card was a ten or not?

4. Any other tips or tricks you think we should use?




Thanks in advance,
WRBJ

THis is a flawed strategy mostly because it is illegal and not worth the risk unless you have an immense bankroll. 5 years in prison is equal to about $20 million for me. I don't think I would risk 5 years for less than that.

Other than that. If you have a dealer that can communicate the next card there is no need to count or wong in etc. It seems to me you are almost not using these terms right so I think you may not know exactly how they work. If you can have 100% insurance (knowing that there is a X under an Ace and NOTHING else) you are playing a +EV game that only an abominably sour count would neutralise.

But you will get caught and you will be punished. This is the oldest trick in the book and easily spotted.

 

[sagefr0g]

so negative

man i can't see why all yous guyz is being so negative on this scheme.
heck it is at least as much a winner as the martingale and it's almost guaranteed to win some big time RFB! :laugh::whip:

 

[Sonny]

So let me get this straight – you have 4 card counters who are also able to track the shuffle, but for some reason you keep trying to include the dealer in the scheme. Why bother? Ditch the dealer and play legally. If your skills are strong then you will make a profit. If not, you will fail. Stop making it harder than it needs to be.

-Sonny-