Something New

[Tom]

Without accounting,you have nothing.

Sure many newbies have been through winning and losing 10 times their ev,however if they play regularly for years(not 4 trips a year)and keep records and are still losing 10 times their EV they should give up blackjack because their game is lacking.

As you see by your sims the ev is 1.3% and all ten players average over 1% in ev, if one of the ten players ev was only 0-.5% then this guy needs to seriously re-evaluate his game. And how do you do that??, with RECORDS. Sorry to disagree but without accounting and evaluation you have absolutely nothing to know where you stand. Anyone who thinks(or assumes) they will win like a computer and dont need to keep records is dreaming. I track ALL hours of play,the sessions,the shifts,the casinos,my buy-in, and most IMPORTANT of all,my winning and losing sessions. If you(or anyone)plan on becoming a serious card counter, I cant stress the importance of keeping accurate records,it's never too late. If I have the time I might share a graphics chart of my results from the last 8 years. You may be quite surprise to learn that after years of play variance decreases and becomes less and less significant.

Good Day

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Morality of gaming in general

It reminds me of a ploppy I saw once who claimed that the game was being controlled by Satan and we were all in danger of Hell for playing it. Then what the hell was he doing in there playing it? Going to Hell would be negative EV if I've ever seen it.

Not to be sarcastic, but to have a moral problem with the things that go on in a casino is very understandable. It bothers me sometimes because people see me winning without realizing what I am doing, think they can win too, and thus I am leading them into a bad situation with incomplete information. But I get over it simply because card counting information is so readily available to all. But if I did have a problem with gaming or any advantage play technique, I wouldn't play.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

But that's different than determining your EV

Using accounting to determine how you're doing *relative* to your EV might do it for some people, but that's very different from trying to calculate the EV for a game using real-life results. It would take a real glutton for punishment to play a losing game for years and years in order to collect data to show him he doesn't know what he's doing. If you're not sure you know what you're doing you don't belong at the table.

And if you don't know your EV before you walk into the casino you're making a mistake too. An 8/2, H17, no LS game should not be played, so are you going to play it for 10 years before you realize you're wasting your time? The shoe games I play have a N(o) of around 20,000 which means you have to play 20,000 hands before you can expect to be ahead of the game at all, let alone near EV.

 

[oldnewbie]

Hmmm....

Mr. Mayor, you say, "But, there is no absolute morality...".

No offense, but there are about a gazillion people around the world who would beg to differ with that one. I am not one of them. I was just yanking a few chains for a bit of a giggle.

oldnewbie

 

[The Mayor]

Fallacy of large numbers

I don't think your argument holds water: large numbers of people are easily deluded. Also, I think that the Christian and Muslim moralities are just slightly different, which is right? Both have a billion people on their side.

But back to gambling.

Here is an example: 10,000,000 people a year visit casinos worldwide who always take even money on blackjack. That doesn't make it the right play. It only makes those people obviously wrong to the very small minority of us who understand the game. Of course, among the 10,000,000, they all think it is the right way to play and that they know the truth. Moreover, if asked for a justification, they can say that this is the common wisdom, it's how everyone plays, and after all, how could 10,000,000 people be wrong?

Get it?

I await your reasoned argument.

--Mayor

 

[oldnewbie]

Reasoned argument?

I don't think I've ever had one of those in my life. My arguments tend to get unreasonable real quick. LOL

Anyway, I was just playing devil's advocate; I didn't realize I was starting a whole new debate.

As for me, personally, I don't know if I would correct the casino employee or not. I don't think the employee will have to make up the descrepancy out of his own pocket, like grocery store checkers used to have to do, and I tend to tip generously anyway, so I'd probably just chalk it up to luck and call it even. Kind of like how they program Coke machines to give you a freebie once in awhile because you lose so much in vending machines over the years.

Anyway, isn't it about time to put this thread to rest?

Good counting.

oldnewbie

 

[Tom]

Ok,what ever works for you,

but it's not a good idea to tell newbies not to keep records,the more experienced card counters know this,actually it's common sense. The best advice you gave this thread is stay away from bad games. If you dont understand what I'm trying to say,sorry. I have no desire(or care)to convince you why you're wrong.

 

[Greasy John]

Refreshing!