splitting 10s

[Mimosine]

Under what conditions would/do you split tens?

i was presented with a pair of 10s against a dealer 6 in a +6 KO count with 2 decks to go. i didn't do it at the time, but was really really tempted to, just for the hell of it. it wouldn't have drawn any heat at the time, but i've gotten better at not experimenting while playing and justing playing with what i know.

so now i want to know: what's the general R.O.T. for splitting 10s, is there one?

thanks in advance.

 

[Sonny]

It all depends on the situation. I know a few players who never split tens just because it is such an obvious giveaway. I personally do it whenever I can because it is so profitable if done properly. If the pit bosses are too busy at another table then I will go ahead and try it, otherwise I might pass. Choosing the right time to play has a lot to do with it.

-Sonny-

 

[Mimosine]

It all depends on the situation. I know a few players who never split tens just because it is such an obvious giveaway. I personally do it whenever I can because it is so profitable if done properly. If the pit bosses are too busy at another table then I will go ahead and try it, otherwise I might pass. Choosing the right time to play has a lot to do with it.

-Sonny-

i hear what you're saying.

i believe i could get away with it, but what are the right "count" and dealer upcard to attempt it? +2 TC? dealer upcard 5,6? those are my best guess - so surely they must be wrong.

 

[Sonny]

i believe i could get away with it, but what are the right "count" and dealer upcard to attempt it? +2 TC? dealer upcard 5,6?

I use the balanced Zen system and my TCs are between +6 and +10 for 10s vs. 4,5,6. Other systems will use different indices.

-Sonny-

 

[rogue1]

Kiss III

With the Kiss III count you can split 10's if the running count is 29 or higher and the dealer is showing a 5 or a 6. I guess it depends on the situation, but if you haven't been splitting tens all along or at least now and then they would figure you for a card counter.

 

[jetace]

You might try looking up the illustrious 18 for KO

 

[Mimosine]

You might try looking up the illustrious 18 for KO

splitting 10s isn't part of the illustrious 18, at least not in my copy of "KO"

edit: the illustrious 18 in KO isn't the same as those originally outlined for hi/lo. weird....

for hi/lo at TC =4-5 you should be splitting against 5&6, so for KO that means you could round it into KO preferred: at the pivot point, +4

 

[jetace]

Yeah, I don't know much about KO.
I just figured there would be something out there.
I'd look it up, but my computer at work blocks most sites.
Fortunately I can get bjinfo!

 

[Mimosine]

Yeah, I don't know much about KO.
I just figured there would be something out there.
I'd look it up, but my computer at work blocks most sites.
Fortunately I can get bjinfo!

i guess my ignorance of this play isn't 100% my fault. using the google "illustrious 18" gives tons of websites that show splitting 10s is one of the most important plays for hi/lo, but in "KO blackjack" (the book), it is NOT listed.

having only just started to use KO, i am beginning to realize its shortcomings, but i never would have thought that the "illustrious 18" would be different amongst different systems. guess now i'll be playing the illustrious 20!

maybe Vancura and Fuchs took out splitting 10s because it is too obvious to the pit.... hmmmm.

 

[EasyRhino]

maybe Vancura and Fuchs took out splitting 10s because it is too obvious to the pit.... hmmmm.

I'm pretty sure that's the case. KO preferred only lists 16 or 17 plays.

 

[Mimosine]

I'm pretty sure that's the case. KO preferred only lists 16 or 17 plays.

hmmm, cheating me out of those 1 or 2 extra plays - and me not even realizing it! i never went through the trouble of counting up the "18" when i read the book, i did find three other errors though....

 

[Renzey]

With KO in the shoe game, if you want to use one fixed running count for splitting 10s against a 5 or 6, I would recommend +7. When you're three decks into the six deck shoe, a +7 R/C will be +5.0 true (you'll virtually never encounter +7 before that). If you ever get five decks in, your true count will be +7.0. At a more common point of four decks in, it'll be +5.5 true.

 

[Mimosine]

With KO in the shoe game, if you want to use one fixed running count for splitting 10s against a 5 or 6, I would recommend +7. When you're three decks into the six deck shoe, a +7 R/C will be +5.0 true (you'll virtually never encounter +7 before that). If you ever get five decks in, your true count will be +7.0. At a more common point of four decks in, it'll be +5.5 true.

Thanks Fred. Your advice here and columns on Casino City times have been a great help to me. I was looking at your reply for awhile, trying to figure out how these numbers work out as you've described them and i finally understand the proper was to convert KO RC to TC. +7 seems a little high to me, but RC=+4 which I was planning to implement might be a tad too low. But then again, splitting 10s will require one or two more variables other than the count to determine if it is a proper play, your advice makes the easiest of the variable concrete in my head.

this whole RC - TC conversion dissuaded me from a balanced count from the beginning, but now, while counting i find myself doing rough deck estimation all the time: 1) is it time to get up (neg count), 2) how many rounds do we have before the cut card, 3) is it time to wong in.

 

[CarlB]

I'm a newbee here this is my first post. You splits 10's against a 6 true count +8%. very simple.

 

[CarlB]

Also u get "heat" dealer/pit boss for splitting 10s if u win on both hands. But so what? Good time to leave and go wonging. Sorry walking.

 

[Renzey]

Mimosine -- +7 R/C as an all around compromise is not too high. Three decks in it equals +5.0 true and five decks in it equals +7.0 true, but usually, it will equal about +5.5 true. Nearly all balanced count systems recommend splitting 10s vs 5 or 6 when the excess high cards reach 4.5 to 5.0 per deck.

With such an aggressive, potentially costly and high visibility play, you'd like to be just a little risk averse, and you never want to do it prematurely. I believe that makes +7 R/C a pretty good number with KO.

 

[EasyRhino]

+7 RC is, conveniently, also the RC at which reKO would have you performing every other index play.

Now, Fred, one thing you say kind of trips me out. With that same +7RC, you get...

3 decks in -> TC +5
4 decks in -> TC +5.5
5 decks in -> TC +7

And yet KO gets knocked for exagerrating advantages late in the show, and undercutting them early. In fact, some of your posts have mentioned that having an adjustable key count if wonging into a game, with a lower threshold early in the shoe, and a higher threshold later.

I cannot reconcile these two things.

 

[Renzey]

Beyond the Pivot

Rhino,
Once the R/C gets beyond the pivot of +4, KO underestimates your advantage late in the shoe. Right at +4, it's perfect and under +4, it overestimates.

 

[Renzey]

Mimo's Chart

Rhino -- You can see this fully illustrated in Mimosine's eyeopening "KO; RC-to-TC" Conversion Chart.

 

[ScottH]

Rhino,
Once the R/C gets beyond the pivot of +4, KO underestimates your advantage late in the shoe. Right at +4, it's perfect and under +4, it overestimates.

I think it's the other way around. KO underestimates your advantage at the beginning, and overestimates your advantage late in the shoe.