Starting a bank

[RJT]

So let's say somebody who's been playing $200 max games is a bad player because they haven't been able to generate bankroll for a $100 MINIMUM game they'd like to play?

Sorry but even if you're the best low stakes player in the world, high stakes BRs do not grow on trees.

Criticizing someone for asking sensible questions regarding why someone else needs a loan is ridiculous and we both know it. Good decisions are based on knowledge, not blind trust.

As to it, if they've only been playing a $200 max game they have substantially too high expectations for the game they are playing and they actually fall into category 2 - poor quality games. It’s not just game rules and pen that make a good game, if I can’t bet high enough to make a decent profit the game’s poor quality.

Alternatively, if the game has allowed a large enough spread to gain them a decent hourly return (with respect to their bank) and they've decided their only option is to jump from a min stake game to a $100 min game, firstly they're not worth investment as they've already shown a lack of motivation to find good opportunities in between and secondly if these are the only 2 games around they're not worth investing in as the opportunity isn't going to last long enough to make a worthwhile profit.

On top of this, if you've been a low stake player for your whole career i'll happily say that i certainly don't want to be the one to bank you for your first experiences of high stakes play. Totally different creature. Being good at one doesn't alway - or even often - translate.

Part of being a capable AP is finding opportunity. While there is a little bit of luck involved in finding those opportunities that are good enough to get you where you want to go, all the players i know that truly are good players found those games and I’d strongly argue that their “luck” has come from preperation. If you can't do that, you're probably not worth investing in. Once you're a proven player who's generated a substantial bank by themselves, looking for investment normally becomes obsolete. There are a few exceptions - games that need excessively high bankrolls, high stakes play, personal circumstances that lead to a lack of funds on hand when a good opp comes up - but they are few and far between.

Once again i would like to stress that i'm not making any statements about moo321 here - i'm simply encouraging anyone who is considering investing to talk to moo directly and get enough information to ensure that paranoia doesn't set in later. Remember that this is an investment. While you expect a return that doesn't guarentee it and even losses are possible. No one here wants to end up in a situation where they start doubting their decision after the fact.

RJT.

 

[Sonny]

So let's say somebody who's been playing $200 max games is a bad player because they haven't been able to generate bankroll for a $100 MINIMUM game they'd like to play?

Sorry but even if you're the best low stakes player in the world, high stakes BRs do not grow on trees.

BRs do not grow on trees, they grow in casinos. A $5k bankroll might confine you to being a red chipping card counter or it could upgrade you to a black chipping AP. A game with a $200 max at 200 hands per hour with a 5% advantage comes to an EV of $2,000/hour. The amount you earn (and your ability to grow your bankroll) depends on how you spend your time. It is likely that the $100 min game you have your eyes on is not the best game in the house.

-Sonny-

 

[The Chaperone]

So let's say somebody who's been playing $200 max games is a bad player because they haven't been able to generate bankroll for a $100 MINIMUM game they'd like to play?

Sorry but even if you're the best low stakes player in the world, high stakes BRs do not grow on trees.

I grew my bankroll from 4 figures to 6 figures playing $100 max games. I also know at least 5 or 6 other people who did the same.

 

[aslan]

Most of the people selling gold, silver, are taking dollars for it:laugh::laugh::laugh:

CP

In order to make a profit, at some point you must sell and take payment in dollars. What you do with those dollars after that is another thing.

 

[kewljason]

I grew my bankroll from 4 figures to 6 figures playing $100 max games. I also know at least 5 or 6 other people who did the same.

I also grew my BR from mid 4 figures to just over 6 figures. That journey was filled with invaluable learning experiences. From overbetting a four figure BR with a $50 top bet, to the first checks play call. Many new milestones along the way to celebrate and many rude awakenings to learn from. My knowledge and game grew right along with my BR and looking back I wouldn't trade that trip for anything. There is a special feeling one gets by making that journey.

I know the OP, moo is very experienced and in a different situation, so my comments are not directed at him, but more at any newbies staring out, when I say "build your own BR. Don't take short cut. Don't take loans or borrow from friends". It's kind of like travelling across country. A plane will get you there faster, but you will miss an amazing ride.

 

[paddywhack]

I also grew my BR from mid 4 figures to just over 6 figures. That journey was filled with invaluable learning experiences. Many new milestones along the way to celebrate and many rude awakenings to learn from. My knowledge and game grew right along with my BR and looking back I wouldn't trade that trip for anything. There is a special feeling one gets by making that journey.

There certainly is a lot of satisfaction having proven to yourself that it can be done. My BR started with 1k loan to myself (well, more than one at the start, damn neg variance) but has grown to mid-5 figures in less than 2 years. A lot of good fortune for sure, but as KJ so aptly put it, a lot of learning took place along the way. That experience is priceless.

 

[sagefr0g]

In order to make a profit, at some point you must sell and take payment in dollars. What you do with those dollars after that is another thing.

heh, heh, that's kind of what i was thinking, not sure what these guys are thinking : (Dead link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/utah-making-gold-and-silver-coins-legal-currency-pushing-debate-about-national-gold-standard/2011/05/22/AFfCQG9G_story.html)

I also grew my BR from mid 4 figures to just over 6 figures. That journey was filled with invaluable learning experiences. From overbetting a four figure BR with a $50 top bet, to the first checks play call. Many new milestones along the way to celebrate and many rude awakenings to learn from. My knowledge and game grew right along with my BR and looking back I wouldn't trade that trip for anything. There is a special feeling one gets by making that journey.

..... It's kind of like travelling across country. A plane will get you there faster, but you will miss an amazing ride.

grew mine from two figures and loads of loans along the way, loans of luck, lol. voodoo, i guess but just me maybe, never under estimate the value of luck, lol. but valuable statement you made about over betting, not to mention gambling, and steaming. my six or so years of AP experience, anecdotal as it may be, testifies to the fact that nothing, inexperience, normal variance, and even relatively sloppy applications of AP will do as much damage to your bankroll than over betting, gambling and steaming. so yeah, plenty of rude awakenings, growing knowledge and milestones. so as the old saying goes, "Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn in no other." Benjamin Franklin, but learn we all do, one way or the other.
so it's good, these statements of real experiences, if nothing else reconfirming what we've learned and hopefully others can learn from those related experiences rather than their own, perhaps, lol...
but yeah, definitely drive cross country, maybe rt 66, lol, now that's a hoot.

There certainly is a lot of satisfaction having proven to yourself that it can be done. My BR started with 1k loan to myself (well, more than one at the start, damn neg variance) but has grown to mid-5 figures in less than 2 years. A lot of good fortune for sure, but as KJ so aptly put it, a lot of learning took place along the way. That experience is priceless.

wow you card counter guyz making it happen, hat's off to yah, amazing.
it was a real pleasure meeting you paddy and watching you work that magic.
when i just only counted cards, took my two figures, three hundred dollars to over mid three figures in i dunno, four years or so, just only nickle range playing. chump change, i know, but big deal to me, no easy gig, lol, definitely a lot of learning along the way.
learning, yeah, that's the ticket, imho.
knowledge gleaned from experience and that of others trying to make a go of it, hard to put a value on it.

 

[moo321]

Well, we ended up winning about 10.1% net over 4 months. A little below what we wanted, but 30% APR isn't bad, either.