Starting your counting in the Midwest

[ALLucK]

For about three/four months now I've been eating up every bit of BlackJack advice on these boards that I can. I've also adhered to the advice of the members and read through three books that they had recommended (including two read thorughs of Blackbelt in Blackjack, great read!), purchased and use Casino Verite to track my statistics, have discard piles setup in my basement....blah blah blah

Anyways, what it comes down to is that I've jumped into counting and advantage play with both feet and, after reading the opinions of some of the members here, it sounds like the midwest is not so hot of a place to be an advantage player. Is this true? Are the conditions in Detroit, Pennsylvania and Windsor that bad?

Also, another thing I'm thinking is that perhaps the Casinos that are going up in Cleveland (where I'm at), Toledo and Cincinnatti will have decent rules or some promotions to bring in players. If conditions in Detroit/Penn/Windsor are bad for BJ today, hopefully this will change when the Ohio casinos are built. I guess for this I'll just need to take a wait and see approach.

One more question Do casinos usually stick to one set of BJ rules and never change them? The reason I ask is I have alloted myself 5-6 months of more practice time before I even set foot near a BJ table and was wondering if conditions are bad today, if rules change and could get better.

 

[blackjack avenger]

It's Regional

Generally things are getting worse in any individual casino
However:joker::whip:
If you are in an area with new casinos then obviously things have gotten better.

 

[moo321]

On the whole, rules are worse than twenty years ago. At some individual casinos, however, things couldn't be better.

There are so many places to play now that there's bound to be more good games if you're selective.

 

[sabre]

The reason I ask is I have alloted myself 5-6 months of more practice time before I even set foot near a BJ table

For God's sake ... you're adding and subtracting 1 and memorizing a few charts. That takes 6 months??!?!?!?!?

 

[ALLucK]

haha no sabre, while being able to consistently/accurately count through a deck in under 30 seconds is still something I'm working on, the preparation time is more around:

1. Becoming as proficient as possible in Basic Strategy

2. Learning to accurately size a discard tray, first by deck, then by half deck

3. Being able to consistently and accurately keep the running count/true count while outside distractions are going on (I found that having my fiance play The Sims in the background with the volume turned up helps a lot in terms of distractions: people talking, music, commotion etc.)

4. Learning and committing to memory the Illustrious 18 indicies for the Zen count

5. Learning Bankroll management and correct betting strategy

6. Mentally preparing myself for the inevitable negative swings

 

[creeping panther]

Lagacy

Edit or remove this post please!!!
On this site, page, we do not make this type of post, not good and not needed, use a PM to pass this info.


Thanks,
CP

 

[Nynefingers]

1. Becoming as proficient as possible in Basic Strategy

This shouldn't take too long.

2. Learning to accurately size a discard tray, first by deck, then by half deck

Half deck estimations is not critical. It doesn't hurt of course, but for a beginner, don't worry about it yet. If you are playing a strong game otherwise, being off slightly won't be terrible as long as you're not consistently off, and so long as you aren't habitually off in the same direction.

3. Being able to consistently and accurately keep the running count/true count while outside distractions are going on (I found that having my fiance play The Sims in the background with the volume turned up helps a lot in terms of distractions: people talking, music, commotion etc.)

This is important, but I think it's something you won't be fully comfortable with until you play in a casino. That's just my opinion though.

4. Learning and committing to memory the Illustrious 18 indicies for the Zen count

Don't worry about it. Learn the top 4-5 for now and don't worry about everything else. These are easy to add later.

5. Learning Bankroll management and correct betting strategy

This is extremely important, but it's all stuff that is done away from the table. Once you memorize the betting ramps, they won't change during the session. Don't let this delay your first trip to the casino unless you are not properly bankrolled or you don't understand how to properly size your bets.

6. Mentally preparing myself for the inevitable negative swings

Not sure I can help you with this one.


I guess what I'm saying is once you can count down a shoe accurately and quickly, the rest of it is stuff you'll pick up as you go. I'd recommend practicing counting down decks until you are confident you can keep up in a casino, then go back count some shoes, maybe jumping in with some small bets when the count is good. If you can't handle the speed, no worries, just find another table to watch and try again. There is no need to wait 5-6 months, and if you do, you are probably costing yourself money. The approach I'm recommending has the benefits of gaining practice time in a real casino environment, having real positive EV (maybe modest, but still positive), and if you start off betting small, this should ease you into the mental toughness required to endure the variance.

 

[lol6deck]

I agree with Nyne. I practiced for about a month with getting BS and counting down a deck to about 22sec and some index plays and felt i was completely ready, went in and did just fine and came out on top (with some significantly possitive winnings too ) i mean i may have splurged and spent all my BR and winnings :laugh: but the point is your probably ready and have been for a while just got to take that heart punding first step
Go get em'! :grin:

 

[Booper702]

haha no sabre, while being able to consistently/accurately count through a deck in under 30 seconds is still something I'm working on, the preparation time is more around:

1. Becoming as proficient as possible in Basic Strategy

2. Learning to accurately size a discard tray, first by deck, then by half deck

3. Being able to consistently and accurately keep the running count/true count while outside distractions are going on (I found that having my fiance play The Sims in the background with the volume turned up helps a lot in terms of distractions: people talking, music, commotion etc.)

4. Learning and committing to memory the Illustrious 18 indicies for the Zen count

5. Learning Bankroll management and correct betting strategy

6. Mentally preparing myself for the inevitable negative swings

ALLuck,

1) You are either proficient in Basic Strategy or you are not. It is one thing to know what plays are close (ex. 16 vs 10) if you want to try to purposely "misplay" a hand but it is another thing to be guessing at the correct BS plays. Basic Strategy provides your entire base to the game. Until you are 100% confident that you know it you shouldn't do anything else.

2) Easy here. Go buy the kind of card your casino uses. Maybe go to there gift shop and buy there used ones cheap. Rubber band together 11 stacks of cards ranging from .5 to 5.5. Learn what each one looks like until you are 100% at naming each stack when they are randomly looked at. Not that hard actually and a good drill.

3) You will best be able to do this after actually getting real world experience in casinos. Just don't over do it right away. You will still be in the learning process. Smaller units than you will eventually use.

4) The Illustrious 18 is actually quite easy to remember. Even easier if you remove 10's v 5 and 10's v 6. I don't think you need to start with a 2-level count though. The best thing you can do right away is just use the +/- in Stanfords Wong's Professional Blackjack. Then move on to Don Schlesinger's Blackjack Attack which include the I18 as well as a wealth of other knowledge. THEN move on to Iam Anderson's Burning the Table's in Las Vegas. The last book can wait til after you have plenty of experience and are starting to bet amounts that catch the eye of the places you play. I really think those 3 books (especially) the first two will allow you to form a solid base to grow from. All three use Wong's numbers to discuss play.

5) That shouldn't be too hard if you just read the above books. Your bets sizes at any given count wont change to dratically if you are properly bankrolled. When I was doing my heavy duty playing I just played the TC minus 1 in green chips up to my max. Granted that any sharp PC will catch on to that but when I was doing it I was playing it in areas that casino personal were quite lacking in experience. It sounds like you will be in that situation with casinos in Ohio.

6) That is not easy. I reached a point were I couldn't raise my bets anymore as I was no longer able to just see the chips as chips. All players have a different tolerences of how much they can put in the circle without seeing it as money. Also, I must admit it is hard stay positive in losing streaks. You just have to remember that as long as you have the skills and are playing good games that you will come out ahead in the long run.

I also suggest looking into reading all you can on the game outside what I suggested earlier. I think reading the older books such as Beat the Dealer, Million Dollar Blackjack, Playing Blackjack as a Business, and others will show you where the game was and how far it has come. Also get to know which authors are good and which ones are completely full of B***S***.

I wish you good luck in getting into this. Get used to never getting any respect for your skills no matter how good you get. People will just not understand. It is best to keep this all to yourself.

 

[lol6deck]

ALLuck,

Get used to never getting any respect for your skills no matter how good you get. People will just not understand. It is best to keep this all to yourself.

extremely true one day when counting down a deck my friend asked what i was doing, i told him and he laughed in my face then makes fun of me constantly for counting :sad:,,,trust me keep it to yourself it adds a little spice to your life to have a small little secret like this

 

[Ferretnparrot]

Here's my usual run of advice for people learning to count.

-when you practice counting down a deck, don't always start and end at zero, start at +15 and end at +15. Or start at -7 or whatever, you will find in shoe games times where count will goto 20 or 30 and it is strange that it takes longer to mentally "say" those numbers

- its all bs about being able to do a deck in 20 seconds, personally I don't think I can deal out a whole deck in less than 30. But if I could I could sure count it, in any case, you as a player at the table have the ability to slow the game to whatever pace you need to count the cards.

-when dealing with deck estimation, for the highest degree of accuracy, you must consider what I call. the poofage factor. As cards are worn in and played, the small bends and freys will make them stack taller. In some cases, at the end of an 8 deck shoe, 6 decks in the discard tray will appear to take up 7/8ths because it poofs up so you must always notate where the cut car is located when the shoe began.

-variations of rules arnt very important 99% of bj games are 6 and 8 deck. What will vary is h17 s17 and surrender. For h17. Double a7vs 2. A8vs6 and 11vs A and that's all you change
The best place to practice strategy is hitorstand.net if it is still opperating. For surrender there's only 4 hands and like 6noteworthy surrender indexes.

Typically, casinos won't change the rules, if they do change them they will stay changed.

- don't be affraid of pit people, it is there job to observe the table so whenever they are staring down your table let them do their job counting up the black and purple chips that were payed etc and don't get all worried, IMO chatting with them is the best way to handle them because most counters are quiet and non talkative.

-singing while playing is great cover

-never goto the cage with more than 5000 in chips to evade taxes

-the best way to deny a players card is to immediately specify you don't have one and don't want one before they can offer it to you...they will just walk away.

-you can bet 0 dollars by sitting out a hand

-sitting in the first or third base CHAIR while not playing the first or third base spot but instead the one next to it will effectively hold two spots while you play only one.

-when sitting at first base you can see cards behind the cut card in the shoe and notate them.

That all I got I'm off to sleep now

 

[Booper702]

I find that the players club can cause bigger problems. If they ask you and and you say no and you don't want one either without them asking if you want one you may look like a jerk. What I would do is say no when asked then when they ask you if you would like one that you say no because you need to not get caught gambling by the wife.

Personally, I use a card. No one is saying it has to be your real name. You just need to keep straight who exactly you are. It can get messy when employees change casino and know you as one name and suddenly you are another. Always keep good notes.