Strange Playing Decisions & 'Heat'-induced Paranoia

[blackjack avenger]

Right or Wong

One does not need to see every card from the beginning in order to wong. Any cards you do not see are unseen cards and should be treated as such. It does not matter if they are in the discard tray, in the shoe or a missed hand due to distraction.

However, a shoe is worth more if watched from the beginning with no cards missed.

Try to catch fresh shoes. A few rounds missed is not the worst thing especially if the cards immediately on the table are positive. Much worse then that I would have little tolerance for.

 

[Mimosine]

One does not need to see every card from the beginning in order to wong. Any cards you do not see are unseen cards and should be treated as such. It does not matter if they are in the discard tray, in the shoe or a missed hand due to distraction.

you are correct sir.

this works *best* for deeply dealt games, the net effect of the cards not seen is that you can think of them as being behind the cut card. Pen is effectively decreased.

I often, while prowling for tables, get to a table where one or two rounds have been dealt, immediately i begin backcounting. I have on a few occasions even been ~1 Deck late to the backcounting party and the hands on the table were all low cards, so immediately i began backcounting, and ended up wonging in.

However, a shoe is worth more if watched from the beginning with no cards missed.

^ correct.

 

[TheApprentice]

my Wong should be much better now

Thanks BJAvenger and Mimosine.
Thinking about the missed cards as simply the equivalent of those behind the cut card and the concept that it's just a reduced pen has really clarified a lot of my self-created dillemma. I will be able to put this into practice now.
One further point comes to mind...

When Wong out time comes, do you most often:
--just go to a new table?
--hang around and keep the count to see if it allows you to wong in again later on the same shoe?
--leave and come back to the same shoe, treating missed cards as missed cards? (I included this in the choice set, but it makes little sense that this would be done, since the count may be higher or lower than when you left, and you'd not know this, so too much risk)
--something I didn't think of?

 

[Sonny]

When Wong out time comes, do you most often:
--just go to a new table?
--hang around and keep the count to see if it allows you to wong in again later on the same shoe?
--leave and come back to the same shoe, treating missed cards as missed cards? (I included this in the choice set, but it makes little sense that this would be done, since the count may be higher or lower than when you left, and you'd not know this, so too much risk)
--something I didn't think of?

Try to find another table that has just finished shuffling. Once a shoe goes bad it usually doesn’t get good again. Even if it does you won’t play many hands before the shuffle. A fresh shoe is usually the best option.

-Sonny-

 

[sagefr0g]

.... Once a shoe goes bad it usually doesn’t get good again. Even if it does you won’t play many hands before the shuffle. A fresh shoe is usually the best option.

-Sonny-

maybe a thought on that would be the better the penetration maybe you'd consider staying longer.

 

[Mimosine]

When Wong out time comes, do you most often:
--just go to a new table?
--hang around and keep the count to see if it allows you to wong in again later on the same shoe?
--leave and come back to the same shoe, treating missed cards as missed cards?

Only first choice. The count will not get good again, fast enough. and coming back to the same table after you left 2 minutes before is incredibly awkward. i wouldn't say dealers get suspicious, but sometimes they and the players get annoyed. i would get annoyed if someone colored up, only to stop back 5 rounds later to color down and start playing again. ploppies also hate people who interrupt the sacred flow (which hasn't been mentioned for a few months on here, maybe holy week is over)...

find a new table, don't give the dealer or the pit any reason to suspect your motives and actions. find a new table, best case scenario, in a different pit. then 20-30 minutes later, come back, maybe you'll have the same dealer again, and you can say how the other pit didn't treat you any better.

 

[TheApprentice]

is KO a problem here?

I am wondering if I should second guess myself on my choice of programs (been planning to go with an unbalanced like reKO or KISS).
It seems that due to the unbalanced count, you start so low and then the shoe's count rises with further pen, that I may be doing myself a disservice when it comes to accuracy for BC/Wonging.
I know the sims show what the sims show, and have spent time on qfit reviewing the comparisons, but in a SUBJECTIVE way, I am getting a negative feeling about unbalanced counts in general.
Anyone else have these type of feelings? Recommend swallowing it and trusting the numbers, or going with my gut and getting tuned up on something like hiloLite?

 

[TheApprentice]

Only first choice. The count will not get good again, fast enough. and coming back to the same table after you left 2 minutes before is incredibly awkward. i wouldn't say dealers get suspicious, but sometimes they and the players get annoyed. i would get annoyed if someone colored up, only to stop back 5 rounds later to color down and start playing again. ploppies also hate people who interrupt the sacred flow (which hasn't been mentioned for a few months on here, maybe holy week is over)...

I was thinking about a temporary wongout for a borderline count when I added that possibility to the choices, something like a poddy break or phone call act. I sure don't want to be THAT GUY.

 

[Mimosine]

I was thinking about a temporary wongout for a borderline count when I added that possibility to the choices, something like a poddy break or phone call act. I sure don't want to be THAT GUY.

instead be the guy who sits out "two rounds" to mix up the flow. stay seated, feigned disgust at how hot the dealer is....


RE: KO..

The wongout points are in the book, your deck estimation can be off by 1/4-1/2 a deck and you will still be OK.

for wongin, i have calculated these points for 6D,
these KO RC's are equivalent to a hi/lo TC of +1
IRC= -20

1 deck done, -8 (12 more lows than highs come out)
2 deck done, -6
3 deck done, -4

at each point these are the "Key Counts" where you should be betting 2 units. or if you are wonging only, they can be your 1 unit starting point. in each case you have a small edge for most rules and games.

 

[TheApprentice]

instead be the guy who sits out "two rounds" to mix up the flow. stay seated, feigned disgust at how hot the dealer is....


RE: KO..

The wongout points are in the book, your deck estimation can be off by 1/4-1/2 a deck and you will still be OK.

for wongin, i have calculated these points for 6D,
these KO RC's are equivalent to a hi/lo TC of +1
IRC= -20

1 deck done, -8 (12 more lows than highs come out)
2 deck done, -6
3 deck done, -4

at each point these are the "Key Counts" where you should be betting 2 units. or if you are wonging only, they can be your 1 unit starting point. in each case you have a small edge for most rules and games.

Ok, thanks, that's perfect.
The books arrival is imminent, but I was previously in a 'gather-all-info-possible-on-the-cheap" mode at first.