strategy trainer game on main page
- Thread starter kewljason
- Start date
Thanks Canceller. And Froggy. You beat me on the head enough times I finally get it. Sometimes.Canceler said:
Guess I got fooled by the betting circle showing a fully doubled bet.So the Trainer officially sucks for the weekend warriors lol.
Now I'm gonna check out my Hoyle's game and see if that'll work. I can't face the accuracy of your spsheet and Wise One's CVBJ - I need the wiggle room of blaming my bad results on bad luck lol.
Well sure. That's why it would be nice to get more details.sagefr0g said:from kewl's post:
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showpost.php?p=84803&postcount=9
"total 1500 shoes played and lost 1331 units. thank god this isnt the real world where my BR is roughly 1200 units! I have kept more detailed results over these last 300 shoes. Hands played 7218"
that's lookin to me like he on average plays just under five hands a shoe before bailing? that would be 7218hands/1500shoes. if 2.7 cards each for dealer and kewl only going 5 X 5.4 cards or 27 cards deep or are we talking maybe 7218hands/300shoes = 28 hands per shoe? if 2.7 cards each for dealer and kewl thats going 28 X 5.4 = 151, circa 151 cards deep before bailing on average. almost 3 decks in before bailing.....
lol i don't think we even know how many decks he's going up against.
as many recorded dealer & player blackjacks he's got near 11% you'd almost wanna believe it's single deck?
Maybe some of it could be due to how difficult it is, as you and Canceller pointed out, working with a $1K roll that doesn't really keep a balance for you as you approach the last of your $1K.
In our game we occasionally could lose 200 units in a shoe. Not often though.
If Ken had a $1 chip making a 1000 unit roll for a shoe, we never could lose it all in a shoe. But we'd have to multiply by 25 lol.
Well, sure, if he wants to.Canceler said:
That stuff you pointed out is what I was thinking of and it is interesting what a small glitch in a program code can make.
Given how difficult it is to keep a running track of results, only being able to double for less, buy a marker, etc I can see how one's unit results could suck without easily realizing why yet the game itself be totally random.
The game is intended to evaluate BS accuracy but not really designed for card-counters. It ain't CVBJ.
Nothing wrong with that.
kewljason
Well-Known Member
Of course I own a small library of blackjack books that I read and reread. Being half way through my fourth year of fulltime blackjack play (I have no income other than small stakes blackjack play), I frequent this site and a couple others that I'm sure are familiar to you all in an attempt to continue to gain as much knowlegde as possible on the subject. Reading the experiences here is worth a lifetime of experince. It is in that spirit that I shared the small sampling of my experience with the strategy trainer. I realized the results were a bit out of the "norm" which is why I posted in the first place. I wanted others experiences as well. Instead it has been suggusted that I kept poor records or am a liar.
"I don't beleive the results, sorry kewl jason" ken smith
"maybe he was just yanking our chain, thinking he could make up any results" kasi
Well, I will continue to frequent the site in my continuing quest for knowledge, but I won' be participating in the discussions any longer. Good luck to all.
"I don't beleive the results, sorry kewl jason" ken smith
"maybe he was just yanking our chain, thinking he could make up any results" kasi
Well, I will continue to frequent the site in my continuing quest for knowledge, but I won' be participating in the discussions any longer. Good luck to all.
It works well
I just used the strategy trainer game. Playing by "the book" didn't win every time but after 2 1/2 shoes using 6 decks (like most casinos in my area) I was up 1,800. The blackjack ratio was high but from my personal experience you see the dealer with more blackjacks at a table than anyone else. So I don't see it too far off from real life.
I just used the strategy trainer game. Playing by "the book" didn't win every time but after 2 1/2 shoes using 6 decks (like most casinos in my area) I was up 1,800. The blackjack ratio was high but from my personal experience you see the dealer with more blackjacks at a table than anyone else. So I don't see it too far off from real life.
The thing I'm realizing with a lot of the posts on this thread is that no one is mentioning luck. Card counting is never fool proof and there is no book that will ever help you overcome the denominator of luck. I have won over $2,000 off of $300 in less than ten minutes and I have lost a $1,000 in less than ten minutes in real life. Nothing will ever overcome luck though counting cards will increase your odds of winning. I continually play low stakes because I couldn't ever imagining betting over $500 at a time. That just seems crazy to me. So here is my advice to anyone new. Play for fun not a career. The variables are too great to throw your money away unless you have it to throw it away and always always set a limit of winning and losing money. When u have met either limit walk away or you are bound to lose.
I'd be shocked, skocked, utterly shocked too if I posted results trillions and trillions and trillions to 1 and a respected BJ authority who wrote the program expressed some disbelief. Who'd a thunk?kewljason said:
Such a noble quest for knowledge you have that you choose to not participate in any details of exactly what you were doing in what game etc which could possibly unlock the mystery and reveal perhaps some flaw in the code that may only happen under very particular circumstances. God forbid that such a result would benefit many for years to come.
And I did say "maybe" lol. I was getting concerned you hadn't been around in 13 days so I'm glad you came back which is what I wanted. But I apologize and, fwiw, my real opinion is that whatever you did, whether accurate or not, was NOT to yank anybody's chain.
Obviously you believe your records to be accurate and were offered in that spirit. Is your quest for knowledge such that you will actually walk away from helping to solve a gazillion mystery? Is it that you don't believe the numbers people are coming up with or maybe believe them but it's no big deal i.e bad luck? Do you believe after what you've read here the BS Trainer program to be random?
Anyway, I hope maybe you "kewl" off a little kewlj, forgive me for being the one who responded and actually added some possible confirmation to your original doubt about the randomness of the game, and decide to continue to add to our collective quest for knowledge here too.
When you think about it, it's almost funny I end up with you all p*ssed at me
for agreeing with you
I'm so stupid that I actually agreed with my wife when she said I think this dress makes me look too fat. What do you think? :grin:
Now let's do some work. God is in the details. What were they?
kewljason
Well-Known Member
I have no need to "kewl off" mr kasi, for I am not the least bit angry, nor upset. I simply try to remove myself from as much negativity as possible, and you my friend are extremely negative and confrontational. I reject your half hearted apoligy, and will not participate further in this discussion. Please respect that.
sagefr0g
Well-Known Member
hey kewl one Kasi's actually a lot worser guy than you think. lol i know cause i've shared a table with him. counts out loud lol. omg you wouldn't believe it.kewljason said:
then he blames me for not telling him to bet up after he finally gets a blackjack. lol. i think the dealer was trying to help us count at one point.
we had dinner at this joint we was playing at and you wouldn't believe it he takes and sprinkles half a dam pepper shakers worth of pepper on his food. yuck! if he hadn't of bought me half a ice cream cone i wouldn't even bother chatting with him anymore :joker: . but anyway the guy's got this mentality when he isn't sure if something makes sense he's just gotta know. so i think knowing him that he's so wrapped up in this mystery that he's just 'typing' out loud so to speak. lol.
so but it's not just cause i owe him half an ice cream cone that i'm saying this but and all kidding aside he ain't really a bad guy. actually a really nice guy. my wife likes him and hell she doesn't even like me and i'm a hell of a nice guy. lol so but anyway i'll vouch for him as not havin meant to offend.
just what it is though is that i'm sure everyone here on these forums is curious about the details of your experience. it's all of us wondering how the heck this can be just like you. such out of wack results and you know the mind thinks of all kinds of possibilities.
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Sorry to hear that.kewljason said:
How about if I don't participate further in this discussion but you can? That's kewl with me.
How do you feel about Ken disbelieving your results? Or is that irrelevant to your decision?
As much as I'd like to respect your decision of intimating Ken's software is in some way non-random, pretty clearly without actually realizing it, and then running away from any questions about that, sorry, I simply can't.
Hope you respect that.
kewljason
Well-Known Member
thank you for your input sage. I thought I had given the details of my experience earlier but will gladly do so again.
For several years, I have used the strategy trainer to practice my counting skills. I also use the blackjack games at yahoo and the free play at a couple of the online casinos. Most of my actual play is small stakes $10 or $15 table, max bet $125, played in Atlantic City, so the strategy trainer really does not mirror my actual game, as I rarely get the opportunity to play heads up with the dealer. I use the RPC as my count. When playing on the S.T., I play 8 decks, forcing a shuffle at 100 cards remaining, which is approximate of the 75% pen on the AC 8 deck game. I wong out or force a new shuffle at negative counts of between -1 and -2 (-2 = -1 hi-lo count) my betting pattern is as follows $10 base bet. $20 @ true count of +2, $30 at TC of +3, $40@TC of +4, $60@TC of +5, $80@tc +7, and max bet $120 @tc of +10 (= +5 hi-lo)
Generally, I could care less about the winning or losing results as I am just practicing my skills, however since the trainer does keep track of your results via the $1000 bankroll, I noticed that at the end of each shoe or forced shuffle point, I seemed to be in the red a majority of the time. Out of couriosity I started keeping track of my winning/losing total and number of shoes only. After 1200 shoes I was down $10070 or over a thousand units.
Over the next 300 shoes I kept track of my blackjacks, dealer blackjacks, and dealer breaks to determine just why I was doing so poorly. I has been pointed out that the dealer break stat is inacurate as after the player breaks the hand is not finished. However for those 300 shoes, I played 7218 hands and received 181 blackjacks while the dealer received 635 blackjacks, including blackjack pushes.
Feeling this was extreme, I posted my results to see if others have had any similar experiences, which they have not. Instead Mr smith and Mr kasi have suggusted that I am lying, which I do find insulting. They seemed to think I was attacking the program, which I am not. I am thrilled that it is there to practice on and still use it to practice my skills almost daily. Quite frankly from a practice standpoint I could care less if it is random or not. The dealer could blackjack every other hand, or never break or all 32 queens be removed and it would still be adequate for my practice needs. However, I do refuse to participate in a discussion after having been called a liar.
For several years, I have used the strategy trainer to practice my counting skills. I also use the blackjack games at yahoo and the free play at a couple of the online casinos. Most of my actual play is small stakes $10 or $15 table, max bet $125, played in Atlantic City, so the strategy trainer really does not mirror my actual game, as I rarely get the opportunity to play heads up with the dealer. I use the RPC as my count. When playing on the S.T., I play 8 decks, forcing a shuffle at 100 cards remaining, which is approximate of the 75% pen on the AC 8 deck game. I wong out or force a new shuffle at negative counts of between -1 and -2 (-2 = -1 hi-lo count) my betting pattern is as follows $10 base bet. $20 @ true count of +2, $30 at TC of +3, $40@TC of +4, $60@TC of +5, $80@tc +7, and max bet $120 @tc of +10 (= +5 hi-lo)
Generally, I could care less about the winning or losing results as I am just practicing my skills, however since the trainer does keep track of your results via the $1000 bankroll, I noticed that at the end of each shoe or forced shuffle point, I seemed to be in the red a majority of the time. Out of couriosity I started keeping track of my winning/losing total and number of shoes only. After 1200 shoes I was down $10070 or over a thousand units.
Over the next 300 shoes I kept track of my blackjacks, dealer blackjacks, and dealer breaks to determine just why I was doing so poorly. I has been pointed out that the dealer break stat is inacurate as after the player breaks the hand is not finished. However for those 300 shoes, I played 7218 hands and received 181 blackjacks while the dealer received 635 blackjacks, including blackjack pushes.
Feeling this was extreme, I posted my results to see if others have had any similar experiences, which they have not. Instead Mr smith and Mr kasi have suggusted that I am lying, which I do find insulting. They seemed to think I was attacking the program, which I am not. I am thrilled that it is there to practice on and still use it to practice my skills almost daily. Quite frankly from a practice standpoint I could care less if it is random or not. The dealer could blackjack every other hand, or never break or all 32 queens be removed and it would still be adequate for my practice needs. However, I do refuse to participate in a discussion after having been called a liar.
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OK, for those who are interested, here is the relevant section of the source code for the Blackjack Basic Strategy Trainer Flash version.
Additional question for kewljason... You are talking about the Flash version and not the Javascript version, right? While I believe both are fair and random, I want to be sure I'm examining the right game.
The source code:
Additional question for kewljason... You are talking about the Flash version and not the Javascript version, right? While I believe both are fair and random, I want to be sure I'm examining the right game.
The source code:
Code:
function buildTheDeck () {
var i;
var suit_number;
var card_number;
var deck_index = 1;
var deck_card;
for (i=1; i<=theNumberOfDecks; i++) {
for (suit_number=1; suit_number<=4; suit_number++) {
for (card_number=1; card_number<=13; card_number++) {
deck_card = new DeckCard(suit_number, card_number);
theDeck[deck_index] = deck_card;
deck_index++;
}
}
}
if (theNumberOfDecks == 1) { theReshuffleIndex = 35; }
if (theNumberOfDecks == 2) { theReshuffleIndex = 70; }
if (theNumberOfDecks > 2) { theReshuffleIndex = theDeck.length - 52; }
}
//
function shuffleTheDeck () {
var card_count = theDeck.length-1;
var temp_card;
var random_index;
var i;
for (i=1; i<=card_count; i++) {
random_index = random(card_count + 1 - i) + i;
temp_card = theDeck[i];
theDeck[i] = theDeck[random_index];
theDeck[random_index] = temp_card;
}
theDeckIndex = 1;
}
//
function buildAFreshDeckIfNeeded()
{
if (theDeckIndex >= theReshuffleIndex)
{
//ShuffleIllustration.playShuffle();
ShuffleAnimation.playShuffle();
theDeck = new Array();
buildTheDeck();
shuffleTheDeck();
setCardsPlayedTo (0);
setCardsLeftTo (theDeck.length - 1);
}
}
//
function dealACardTo (this_hand_number)
{
var deck_card = theDeck [theDeckIndex];
var cards_in_hand = theHands [this_hand_number].cardCount();
var new_card;
new_card = new Card (deck_card.cardType, deck_card.cardValue, this_hand_number, cards_in_hand + 1);
theHands [this_hand_number].addCard (new_card);
theHands [this_hand_number].hideCardTotal();
if (deck_index < theDeck.length)
{
theDeckIndex++;
}
else
{
// this is not supposed to happen, of course
// choose one of the cards played in an earlier game
theDeckIndex = random (20) + 1;
}
// A card signals its arrival on-screen by calling finishedDealingACardToHand()
addToCardsPlayed (1);
}
//sagefr0g
Well-Known Member
ahh got it thank you much kewljason! your probably using the Flash version right? well i wont try and draw you into the discussion but i'm sure we're all grateful that you reposted these details. and hope that you jump in with a comment or what ever since after all your post was pretty much the impetus for this whole discussion. thanks again.kewljason said:
sagefr0g
Well-Known Member
oh i see. my cone was the one that cost.Kasi said:
that's like Carlin's rant on religion. telling the audience there ain't no God and he's gonna prove it. calls out to God " if your really up there then strike this audience dead" :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o
it's hard to explain how i see this situation. well ok watch this video and just substitute ice cream cone for cigarettes and it'll help maybe understand how your acting about this. : :joker:Kasi said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5NyyC-UjBM
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